M1917 markings and identifications; Commercial vs. Military
- Thread starter M2MikeGolf
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M2MikeGolf
US Veteran
Thanks Guy, I looked at that thread. Pretty sure this one I'm looking at is a transitional, and it's as it should be if you ignore my terrible memory. Pretty sure I'll close the deal on it.
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M2MikeGolf
US Veteran
Thanks Ed, I believe you are correct. I may close on it tomorrow.
VaTom
Member
Lets us know if you close the deal and post pictures. I have a 1929 Commercial that was refinished when I bought it. Don't mind the refinish as it was bought at a super price at a local auction and lots of fun to shoot.
M2, I hope it's still there for you. With your clarification, it falls late into the SN range for the 991 guns Hondo44 mentioned in the other thread. The SCSW4th says fewer than 1000 were made and the shop has it priced below the $900 the SCSW is giving for a Good condition gun. Even with the wrong grips, I think that is a pretty decent deal. Decent period correct grips are gonna be pricey but they are still floating around. While it is hard to tell from the one picture, I don't think it has been refinished. Maybe someone else has better eyes. After the war, S&W was putting a matte or brush finish on all its guns until 1956. Compared to a bright blue that would appear darker although the same process was used.
Could be an eagles head inspection stamp if the frame used was originally made for the military.
Could be an eagles head inspection stamp if the frame used was originally made for the military.
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Here is 21015x if you want to compare finishes. Modified sights on mine.
Stu
Stu
M2,
Thank you for your military service!
I hope you're there when the store opens or call them and have it put on hold!
With your corrected info it can only be a righteous Post War Transitional.
Thank you for your military service!
I hope you're there when the store opens or call them and have it put on hold!
With your corrected info it can only be a righteous Post War Transitional.
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As a shooter, you'll want better stocks anyway; at least magnas like original for the gun and likely targets.
The transitional models had the longer pre-war N frame handle, right? When did the shorter post-war frames kick in? Model of 1950? Might be hard finding magnas that fit right. You can see those replica grips are cattywampus.
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M2MikeGolf
US Veteran
All,
I appreciate all the good advice and informative comments. I went by there first thing this morning and bought it. I believe the blue is original, and very nice, but won't attempt grading it. I've already ordered a set of eagle magna repro's, will decide about looking for originals later. The grips that were on it were those modern altamonts like they put on the repro M1917s. In my photos, I actually traded out those with the grips that came on my modern M-22 (I had long ago replaced those with magnas for shooting).
I opened the side plate and wiped out all the oil as someone had filled it, never seen so much oil. I checked my side plate and it does match the crane and frame part numbers. I don't believe it has ever had a lanyard ring on it. I may get one, kind of like those and actually wish my M-22 had one, guess it's the old Army in me.
I have taken a picture of it along side my Grandfather's Colt Government model, made in 1927. He was a young infantry Lieutenant when he bought it in 1930 at the PX while he was stationed in Tientsin, China. I have it lettered from Colt, indicating it was shipped to the PX there along with a 1903 Hammerless model he bought for my grandmother. He carried the Government model in WWII. Makes a nice picture of civilian versions of two old warhorses.
The picture of the crane/frames shows that marking I can't identify. Perhaps one of you know what that is, just above the part number.
I appreciate all the good advice and informative comments. I went by there first thing this morning and bought it. I believe the blue is original, and very nice, but won't attempt grading it. I've already ordered a set of eagle magna repro's, will decide about looking for originals later. The grips that were on it were those modern altamonts like they put on the repro M1917s. In my photos, I actually traded out those with the grips that came on my modern M-22 (I had long ago replaced those with magnas for shooting).
I opened the side plate and wiped out all the oil as someone had filled it, never seen so much oil. I checked my side plate and it does match the crane and frame part numbers. I don't believe it has ever had a lanyard ring on it. I may get one, kind of like those and actually wish my M-22 had one, guess it's the old Army in me.
I have taken a picture of it along side my Grandfather's Colt Government model, made in 1927. He was a young infantry Lieutenant when he bought it in 1930 at the PX while he was stationed in Tientsin, China. I have it lettered from Colt, indicating it was shipped to the PX there along with a 1903 Hammerless model he bought for my grandmother. He carried the Government model in WWII. Makes a nice picture of civilian versions of two old warhorses.
The picture of the crane/frames shows that marking I can't identify. Perhaps one of you know what that is, just above the part number.
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M2MikeGolf
US Veteran
Beautiful! Great catch and great price.
Clearly has the 1930 rd top frame reportedly assembled in the serial range S209792-S210782, many of which shipped in the 1946-48 period.
Should have the smaller U notch rear sight blade.
And well within the Transitional serial # range!
It wouldn't come from S&W with an empty lanyard swivel hole, they plugged the hole. So the swivel was probably removed as soon as received by the owner. Is the retaining pin still in the grip frame under the grip?
The strange stamp by the assembly # in the yoke looks like Px, but really just a poorly stamped inspector's mark which should be there.
If I did anything to it besides install a lanyard swivel, I'd swap barrels with the Model 22 to get the shorter barrel and with the extractor rod shroud like the 1917 should have had from the get go.
You scored big time!
Beautiful 1911A1 as well, more correctly a Model of 1926 since it's a civilian model.
Clearly has the 1930 rd top frame reportedly assembled in the serial range S209792-S210782, many of which shipped in the 1946-48 period.
Should have the smaller U notch rear sight blade.
And well within the Transitional serial # range!
It wouldn't come from S&W with an empty lanyard swivel hole, they plugged the hole. So the swivel was probably removed as soon as received by the owner. Is the retaining pin still in the grip frame under the grip?
The strange stamp by the assembly # in the yoke looks like Px, but really just a poorly stamped inspector's mark which should be there.
If I did anything to it besides install a lanyard swivel, I'd swap barrels with the Model 22 to get the shorter barrel and with the extractor rod shroud like the 1917 should have had from the get go.
You scored big time!
Beautiful 1911A1 as well, more correctly a Model of 1926 since it's a civilian model.
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M2MikeGolf
US Veteran
Thanks Jim. I was surprised to see something like this locally. It has no pin, but I'll order up one from Numrich with the lanyard swivel.
Not sure about the barrel. I've got my 22 for that, kinda' like that long barrel, for now, but may change my mind later.
Also, thanks for other posts you had made in the past. They helped me early on figure out what I was looking at. Of course, I had a lot of help here on this thread, with lots of good info and advice. That's why this forum has real value.
Many thanks to all that helped me out with this, it's A great example of value and credit to this forum and it's knowledgeable members.
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M2MikeGolf
US Veteran
You had it pegged from the very start, thanks Alan!
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M2MikeGolf
US Veteran
A little update for those that were interested in my commercial 1917. After opening it up and cleaning out the excessive oil, I began noticing some issues with it. I noticed immediately how "smooth" the action was. It was so smooth, then when dry firing (with snap caps), the cylinder would some times advance past lockup. The hand is and was fine. I replaced one spring at a time, until I ended up replacing them all. It now is flawless, and has a normal, and very tight feel to it, and no more cylinder lockup issue (or lack thereof). For about $20 dollars worth of springs, it seems virtually new. I also found some vintage grips that match extremely well, and should be pretty close to correct for the time, I think, or close enough for me. Tomorrow, I take it to the range.
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Very nice 1917. I like it a lot. Also digging your Commercial Colt's 1911A1.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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M2MikeGolf
US Veteran
Final report; I fired Remington UMC "ball" and federal too at the range today, right about fifty rounds. It was accurate even with an old one handed military stance, much more accurate than my first 1917. It functioned flawlessly with both full and half moon clips. I even tried non-clip firing; the spent casings slide out easily. The recoil was more than I expected, but not unpleasant. I have elevated it to status of my favorite S&W, which is saying a lot, I have about twenty.
I learned an interesting thing about springs with this revolver. I was having a problem when dryfiring in double action rapidly, the cylinder would sometimes not lock, and actually travel past lockup. It's the opposite of a worn hand problem. When I replaced the rebound spring, that fixed the problem. I wouldn't have thought that was the fix for that issue. All the springs seemed to have been set, in other words, it seems this revolver probably sat for a very long time. The main spring was really bad, too. I replaced everything with stock.
I learned an interesting thing about springs with this revolver. I was having a problem when dryfiring in double action rapidly, the cylinder would sometimes not lock, and actually travel past lockup. It's the opposite of a worn hand problem. When I replaced the rebound spring, that fixed the problem. I wouldn't have thought that was the fix for that issue. All the springs seemed to have been set, in other words, it seems this revolver probably sat for a very long time. The main spring was really bad, too. I replaced everything with stock.
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Thanks for the update.
Springs, much like people, will often lose their...temper
.
Springs, much like people, will often lose their...temper
.
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M2MikeGolf
US Veteran
Thanks for the update.
Springs, much like people, will often lose their...temper
And how that seems to correlate with age ;-)
