What is going on with this 69?

[fortyshooter]

Took it down to my range this morning to fire more rounds after a grip change and opening up the cyl. throats to .4315. Bullets measure at .431 and just slide in throats.
Was shooting 240 gr. Xtreme plated and 240 gr. Missouri SWC HiTech coated bullets all over 9.0 gr. of Unique. Also about 10 .44 Special loads using 200 gr. Xtreme plated over 7.5 Unique.

This target was result of rounds fired from 10 yds from a seated position and resting gun off of knee 2 hand hold steady grip.

Not too bad but at 20 yds. trying to hit my 10 inch plates was a real challenge which is normally easy with my other revolvers.

Another item was what the barrel looked like after shooting 60 rounds of plated and coated bullets. The last 5 were the coated bullets. Took some scrubbing with the bronze brush to get it out. Was hoping the correct sized cylinder throats would have fixed this issue...but not!

And for some reason when the gun is cold the action is nice and smooth with light SA pull.
When heated up from firing pulling the hammer back there is a hard crunch just before the hammer is set to full cock when loaded. There seems to be plenty of headspace with the rounds.
This only happens after 10 rounds have fired and the gun is hot.

Anyway this pup might be a short timer in the gun case!

I can hit my steel from 50 yds. with my little Ruger 3.5 inch New Vaquero .45 ACP.

My 700 dollar conclusion of personal expirence...find a nice "old" Smith&Wesson!

 

[Lou_the_welder]

This is the one with the .010-.005" gap?
My 686 shot crappy with an uneven cut on the barrel.
You should send it back so they could fix it right.
I couldn't make mine shoot a damn at even 7 yards!
I've had to send one of mine back twice for the same reason. Dont feel bad. Just send it in.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[MCorps0311]

Look like it shoot well to me that's a tight group.

 

[1sailor]

With regards to the hard "crunching" just before full cock in SA. Take a quick look-see at the hand. Open the cylinder and while holding the thumb latch back cock the pistol. Then sighting across the recoil shield, make sure that none of the hand is protruding. If it is then it's possible that it's catching on your case rims. Happened to me before and drove me nuts. Takes about 10 minutes to fix if that's the issue (or a least one of your issues).

 

[fortyshooter]

With regards to the hard "crunching" just before full cock in SA. Take a quick look-see at the hand. Open the cylinder and while holding the thumb latch back cock the pistol. Then sighting across the recoil shield, make sure that none of the hand is protruding. If it is then it's possible that it's catching on your case rims. Happened to me before and drove me nuts. Takes about 10 minutes to fix if that's the issue (or a least one of your issues).

I will check that out...Thanks!

 

[fortyshooter]

Look like it shoot well to me that's a tight group.

Yeah it's OK but need that out at 20 yds...standing position!

 

[fortyshooter]

This is the one with the .010-.005" gap?
My 686 shot crappy with an uneven cut on the barrel.
You should send it back so they could fix it right.
I couldn't make mine shoot a damn at even 7 yards!
I've had to send one of mine back twice for the same reason. Dont feel bad. Just send it in.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

When cleaning the barrel out it looked like lead residue coming out. Soaked it in my Ballsitol,let it sit, then ran the bronze bore brush through many times. Patched it out and then had to run the bronze thru again.
Shouldn't have to do this much with coated or plated bullets and my other revolvers shoot clean.
The cylinder throats at .4316 shouldn't be squeezing down the 431 bullets or shaving the coating/plating off.
Cylinder bores line up nice when revolver is cocked.
You think the bore groove diameter might be on the big side?

You know I would hope that a Smith&Wesson would be built correctly someplace in this L frame!

 

[fortyshooter]

With regards to the hard "crunching" just before full cock in SA. Take a quick look-see at the hand. Open the cylinder and while holding the thumb latch back cock the pistol. Then sighting across the recoil shield, make sure that none of the hand is protruding. If it is then it's possible that it's catching on your case rims. Happened to me before and drove me nuts. Takes about 10 minutes to fix if that's the issue (or a least one of your issues).

You da man 1sailor!!! It is sticking up and if gun is slightly tilted up during cocking it hits!!!

Will be sending this still sickly pup back the S&W Correction Dept. to fix this and the other issues.

 

[ontargetagain]

Grip change? Is the grip screw in a slightly different location and is binding on the mainspring? I have had that happen!
Karl

 

[Nightowl]

I'm missing the point of opening the cylinder throats and then shooting .431 bullets through a .429 barrel??

 

[Lou_the_welder]

When cleaning the barrel out it looked like lead residue coming out. Soaked it in my Ballsitol,let it sit, then ran the bronze bore brush through many times. Patched it out and then had to run the bronze thru again.
Shouldn't have to do this much with coated or plated bullets and my other revolvers shoot clean.
The cylinder throats at .4316 shouldn't be squeezing down the 431 bullets or shaving the coating/plating off.
Cylinder bores line up nice when revolver is cocked.
You think the bore groove diameter might be on the big side?

You know I would hope that a Smith&Wesson would be built correctly someplace in this L frame!

They say coated ones aren't supposed to give way much, but I've noticed they smear inside the barrel(and smell like burnt plastic).
I run exactly those xtreme 200 and 240gr plated ones without any problems.
I always ran into some kind of problems with the coated ones that I dont order them anymore.
If they dont cause you much problems on other guns, it's what I've noticed with the Smith's.
But that gap. That needs to be fixed.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[1sailor]

It almost sounds like something particular to the .44's. I have shot literally thousands of rounds of Hy-Tek coated bullets in .357 magnum, 9mm, .40S&W, and .45acp without ever experiencing ANY issues at all. I have however had issues with plated bullets.

 

[twodog max]

I think your barrel problem is **** bullets. Had the same problem with my 69 and MBC bullets. Got rid of those things and use my own home cast. No problems. Melted all the rest down and recast in a RCBS 250KT sizes 430 and the same lead no problem.

 

[kaaskop49]

What was the movie or TV show where one character said that (can't quote exactly) some things/people just ain't ever gonna be right? Sounds a bit like this 69. I've sold guns for much less reason than all the difficulty the OP has been having. IMO, time to wave bye-bye to this gun. Wish you all the best.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[fortyshooter]

My Ruger .44 SBH shoots the plated and coated bullet fine as well as my 629-2E and Charter Arms .44 Bulldog. Throat size on those is .432

I also have a Ruger Alaskan .454/ .45 Colt and you have to use plated or jacketed bullets thru it. They made the throats .456 on those to bleed of some pressure due to the .454 Casul but it allows the hot gases to cause leading problems when using lead bullets.

Will call SW in the morning for another Return slip to get the gap straight and the problem with the cylinder/hand.

 

[wood714]

Every time I've got my self almost talked into buying a 69, another one of these threads pop up.

 

[fortyshooter]

Every time I've got my self almost talked into buying a 69, another one of these threads pop up.

Sorry about that! I bought into all the good reviews and took a chance and these are just the results of what I received.
Problem is you can't buy an "old" Model 69!

Hopefully the 2nd trip will result in a fine shooter???

 

[3rdgeargrndrr]

I would check the accuracy of a cylinder full of mags out of it before writing it off. Also without chrono data would be hard to see how much variability the ammo plays into it.
But if these are pet loads you might just want to send it back and pray or trade/sell it.

 

[F75gunslinger]

The other part of this is that every gun is different. This load may be a "pet" load in another gun, but for whatever reason it doesn't work well in this one.

I also question opening up throats while the barrel is smaller..isn't the whole point of the throats to make sure the bullet is straight and properly lined up ? Would a throat larger than the barrel cause more issue than help?

 

[fortyshooter]

From what I have read you want the throat to be a slip fit for the diameter bullet used so it does not squeeze it down to a size smaller. This helps the bullet get a good grip and seal down the bore. If the bullet is smaller it can skid down the rifling instead of a tight engagement.

I don't know the current size of the new type sleeved barrel but found info that claimed the average size of S&W .44 Special barrel groove dia. is .430.

Also if a lead type bullet is .001-.002 larger than bore size doesn't seem to be an issue from what I read.

Most standard .44 bullets are in the .430- .4315 size from what I have measured and those shoot fine in my other three .44's that have conventional cut rifling.

I could have wrongfully assumed that the M-69 throats were just a bit tight and honed them out to correct fit for .430-.4315 bullets which shouldn't hurt anything.

Would like to hear from other longer time owners of the 69 and what lead bullets shoot well in their guns.

I was intending to shoot mostly hot .44 Special loadings in the Mag cases for this gun.