And I ask you, why not?
S&W says they don't know how many Mod. 915s they made.
- Thread starter mikem
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And I ask you, why not?
Oh you've got the FEVER, you are showing all the symptoms. Many of us that spend time in this area of the site have had this fever for quite a while. It is a fun beast to feed and you are merely in the early stages.
That's an answer. Generally, somebody puts that much effort into a quest, there's a reason. Doesn't have to be, though . . .
italiansport
Member
The thing that amazes me about this response is I suspect all pistol production record keeping was computerized by this time and I expect that a list of all 915s produced could easily be extracted by their computer department. Given access to their central computer files I believe a number could be derived in a couple of minutes. Additionally; how would management know how successful(profitable) a model was with no indication of volume produced and sold?
Jim
Jim
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I have a rather collectable one, too: a S&W 912.5 which is a 910 with a 915 slide on it. One of Smith & Wesson's lesser-known models works like a charm. Very limited production, though.
HOUSTON RICK
Member
This has come up before without a conclusion:
How many Mod. 915s made?
How many Mod. 915s made?
Same OP. Pretty sure he remembers . . .
You missed the point.
And the point was that the number is available and would not be difficult to find.
I must say I'm rather surprised at all the interest and response this thread has generated.
The original post/question was pretty innocuos. And I'll freely admit the question was asked out of idle curiousity.
The 915 is a great pistol so I got to wondering how many were made and sold. No big deal.
The thing that surprises me most is the majority of the responses are not concerned with the answer to the question itself, but why I would ask the question in the first place.
As I said before, nothing more than idle curiousity prompted the question. I see nothing wrong with my asking the question.
Some here seem to have taken great umbrage at my asking the question. And I just don't understand why.
That's what this whole forum is about, or should be about, right? People asking questions and other folks supplying answers.
It strikes me that this pretty meaningless thread is somehow a microcosm of our nation; rather divided and with people looking to "take sides." People are far too willing to "engage" these days, oftentimes over nothing.
And I love all the reasons given for why I haven't, thus far, gotten an answer.
People who have no idea of S&W's motivation, or lack thereof, in giving me the number have given all kinds of reasons why I havent gotten a reply. And some of those reasons seem rather far fetched to me.
I suspect the reason is very simple. The people I have spoken to, and they are three in number over a period of eight months, were customer service reps.
They don't see the question as particularly important nor do they know where to go for the answer. I have nothing against those folks. Each of them was courteous and pleasant.
Shakespeare wrote a play called "Much Ado About Nothing."
It was a comedy.
The original post/question was pretty innocuos. And I'll freely admit the question was asked out of idle curiousity.
The 915 is a great pistol so I got to wondering how many were made and sold. No big deal.
The thing that surprises me most is the majority of the responses are not concerned with the answer to the question itself, but why I would ask the question in the first place.
As I said before, nothing more than idle curiousity prompted the question. I see nothing wrong with my asking the question.
Some here seem to have taken great umbrage at my asking the question. And I just don't understand why.
That's what this whole forum is about, or should be about, right? People asking questions and other folks supplying answers.
It strikes me that this pretty meaningless thread is somehow a microcosm of our nation; rather divided and with people looking to "take sides." People are far too willing to "engage" these days, oftentimes over nothing.
And I love all the reasons given for why I haven't, thus far, gotten an answer.
People who have no idea of S&W's motivation, or lack thereof, in giving me the number have given all kinds of reasons why I havent gotten a reply. And some of those reasons seem rather far fetched to me.
I suspect the reason is very simple. The people I have spoken to, and they are three in number over a period of eight months, were customer service reps.
They don't see the question as particularly important nor do they know where to go for the answer. I have nothing against those folks. Each of them was courteous and pleasant.
Shakespeare wrote a play called "Much Ado About Nothing."
It was a comedy.
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Miss M,
I haven't put much effort at all into trying to find out the number of 915s made.
In eight months I've made three calls to S&W and posted the question here twice.
Yeah man, I'm exhausted.
1775usmarine
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I got an email from Steve at s&w back in Nov 2017 stating 8023 s&w 909's were made. I also got an email from chris Lopez around that time who gave me the sku and month day year for the 8 3rd gens I had at that time. Just depends on who you get it's like playing the lottery.
kbm6893
Member
While I agree the company is not bother to find out the number for Mike, it shouldn't be hard. I am sure their records are computerized, especially for a gun made in the 90's into the 2000's. A simple search that should take 39 seconds would get the answer. Filter out all model numbers but 915 and hit search.
JohnHL
Member
I'm with you, mikem!
I, too would like to know the production quantity of the 915 and any other model produced.
For no other reason than an enthusiast's curiosity.
That's why I suggested the History Letter.
If it could be made contingent upon providing a production number, I would think that at least 15 members of this forum, who own 915s, would be willing to pony up 5 bucks each to find out. (I'm in).
On a related matter, I don't know why S&W (or any manufacturer) would have any reason to conceal production numbers, but in a press release by the NRA stating the ever increasing number of background checks, they (the NRA) curiously mentioned that gun manufacturers are very tight lipped about production quantities.
Perhaps a question directed to NRA about the reason for the secrecy might reveal the difficulty behind finding the information.
John
I, too would like to know the production quantity of the 915 and any other model produced.
For no other reason than an enthusiast's curiosity.
That's why I suggested the History Letter.
If it could be made contingent upon providing a production number, I would think that at least 15 members of this forum, who own 915s, would be willing to pony up 5 bucks each to find out. (I'm in).
On a related matter, I don't know why S&W (or any manufacturer) would have any reason to conceal production numbers, but in a press release by the NRA stating the ever increasing number of background checks, they (the NRA) curiously mentioned that gun manufacturers are very tight lipped about production quantities.
Perhaps a question directed to NRA about the reason for the secrecy might reveal the difficulty behind finding the information.
John
JohnHL
Member
Of course, while I do not actually know the real reason for manufacturer recalcitrance at releasing production numbers, perhaps it is because something like this has (or will) occur on the evening news:
Slow witted, leftist anchorman: "Frightening news out of Springfield, Massachusetts tonight."
Even slower witted, more leftist field reporter: "That's right, Dan.
I spoke today with the plant guard at the Smith & Wesson manufacturing facility and I asked him if he could account for the whereabouts of some 347,000 model 39 AUTOMATIC pistols.
He said he could not!!
Keep in mind, these killing machines are capable of destroying the lives of at least eight innocent women, children, and minorities with EACH of the thousands of detachable magazines produced.
Back to you, Dan."
Slow witted, leftist anchorman: "Scary stuff, indeed."
John
Slow witted, leftist anchorman: "Frightening news out of Springfield, Massachusetts tonight."
Even slower witted, more leftist field reporter: "That's right, Dan.
I spoke today with the plant guard at the Smith & Wesson manufacturing facility and I asked him if he could account for the whereabouts of some 347,000 model 39 AUTOMATIC pistols.
He said he could not!!
Keep in mind, these killing machines are capable of destroying the lives of at least eight innocent women, children, and minorities with EACH of the thousands of detachable magazines produced.
Back to you, Dan."
Slow witted, leftist anchorman: "Scary stuff, indeed."
John
kbm6893
Member
I remember the big deal they made when they made over 1,000,000 Shields. A big sign held up with the smiling employees.
You've obviously never talked with a guard at S&W. They wouldn't tell you if your hair was on fire. A very grumpy lot.
From what I've been told over the years, asking about different things as an armorer ...
S&W can easily search by 3rd gen serial number, although even then it might take a little time depending on the computer system and any records not stored in the computers systems, filing and archive systems that have been used over the years.
I remember when I was asking about a revised part for a 3rd gen some time back, and I was told that the previous computer system in which 3rd gen info was kept was becoming no longer easily accessible by customer service people. The new system they'd just installed the previous year was devoted to current production guns, which meant 3rd gen info hadn't been entered or migrated from the previous system. The guy helping me was an old time employee, and he still had access to the system, but even so, it took him a little longer than he'd expected to find the answer (and I think in that instance it had also involved a phone call to confirm something he was muttering while I was still on the open line).
Asking them about the total number of a general model means having to go back through that old system,and looking at any earlier system(s) used within the different depts of the company, looking through production records, tracking any special production runs & orders (LE, off-shore/export, PC projects, etc).
Think about if this might make things a little harder/slower, too ... Another time I was also told that frames for various handguns weren't necessarily serialized until they were ready to be used in a production run.
Obviously, M&P's are serialized when the steel subs-chassis parts are molded into a plastic frame, so this is different than when revolver or 1911 frames are being machined.
Remember when that first run of re-introduced 642-1's were released? Right after I learned about them I eagerly called back to the factory to see if any of them were still available for an armorer sale. During the conversation, while the guy was trying to find any info on them in his system, I was told that they'd been made from earlier -1 frames that had been sitting unused in parts storage after the -2's had entered production, until the decision was made one day to start clearing out some older unused parts, at which time those frames were serialized (new number series) and used to make new 642-1's. The guy telling me about it said that all 3,000-odd of the new -1's had already been shipped out, but he gave me the names of a couple of their regular major vendors to whom they'd sold that run of guns. I had to have a local S&W LE distributor call around until he found one for me still at one of the vendors.
So, the question may become one of how many serialized, completed 915's were made, which might be a different question that how many 915 frames may have been machined in preparation for any particular production run, but left sitting in parts storage in an earlier time? Were they destroyed, or eventually serialized and used to make complete guns? The production number of the frames might be different from how many completed 915's were shipped, and the answer to both questions might be stored in different spots.
Sure, the company could eventually determine how many 915's were shipped, in total, for any and all runs, sales & any special orders over the years the guns were in production, but it might not be as simple as knowing how many Shields were made in the first 2 years of production, as the Shield production cell info is current and available in the new/current computer system. Now ask for that number of first "generation" Shields in another 15 years, after another couple of computer systems have been introduced, and if additional Shield manufacturing is started up in another of their plant locations, and it might not be able to be answered as quickly, but eventually they could come up with an answer. Probably not just for some customer calling them out of curiosity, though.
I don't claim to have any definitive info about this sort of thing, though, but I've heard my fair share of interesting info from some folks I often had to call at the factory to get answers to questions (as an armorer), while we'd sometimes chat if they had the time, or catch up on things (personal) since we'd last spoke, or I thought of additional questions that suddenly piqued my curiosity while I had them on the line.
S&W can easily search by 3rd gen serial number, although even then it might take a little time depending on the computer system and any records not stored in the computers systems, filing and archive systems that have been used over the years.
I remember when I was asking about a revised part for a 3rd gen some time back, and I was told that the previous computer system in which 3rd gen info was kept was becoming no longer easily accessible by customer service people. The new system they'd just installed the previous year was devoted to current production guns, which meant 3rd gen info hadn't been entered or migrated from the previous system. The guy helping me was an old time employee, and he still had access to the system, but even so, it took him a little longer than he'd expected to find the answer (and I think in that instance it had also involved a phone call to confirm something he was muttering while I was still on the open line).
Asking them about the total number of a general model means having to go back through that old system,and looking at any earlier system(s) used within the different depts of the company, looking through production records, tracking any special production runs & orders (LE, off-shore/export, PC projects, etc).
Think about if this might make things a little harder/slower, too ... Another time I was also told that frames for various handguns weren't necessarily serialized until they were ready to be used in a production run.
Obviously, M&P's are serialized when the steel subs-chassis parts are molded into a plastic frame, so this is different than when revolver or 1911 frames are being machined.
Remember when that first run of re-introduced 642-1's were released? Right after I learned about them I eagerly called back to the factory to see if any of them were still available for an armorer sale. During the conversation, while the guy was trying to find any info on them in his system, I was told that they'd been made from earlier -1 frames that had been sitting unused in parts storage after the -2's had entered production, until the decision was made one day to start clearing out some older unused parts, at which time those frames were serialized (new number series) and used to make new 642-1's. The guy telling me about it said that all 3,000-odd of the new -1's had already been shipped out, but he gave me the names of a couple of their regular major vendors to whom they'd sold that run of guns. I had to have a local S&W LE distributor call around until he found one for me still at one of the vendors.
So, the question may become one of how many serialized, completed 915's were made, which might be a different question that how many 915 frames may have been machined in preparation for any particular production run, but left sitting in parts storage in an earlier time? Were they destroyed, or eventually serialized and used to make complete guns? The production number of the frames might be different from how many completed 915's were shipped, and the answer to both questions might be stored in different spots.
Sure, the company could eventually determine how many 915's were shipped, in total, for any and all runs, sales & any special orders over the years the guns were in production, but it might not be as simple as knowing how many Shields were made in the first 2 years of production, as the Shield production cell info is current and available in the new/current computer system. Now ask for that number of first "generation" Shields in another 15 years, after another couple of computer systems have been introduced, and if additional Shield manufacturing is started up in another of their plant locations, and it might not be able to be answered as quickly, but eventually they could come up with an answer. Probably not just for some customer calling them out of curiosity, though.
I don't claim to have any definitive info about this sort of thing, though, but I've heard my fair share of interesting info from some folks I often had to call at the factory to get answers to questions (as an armorer), while we'd sometimes chat if they had the time, or catch up on things (personal) since we'd last spoke, or I thought of additional questions that suddenly piqued my curiosity while I had them on the line.
That quote is from your last paragraph.
The rest of your post is sprinkled with a ton of:
"It may ...".
"It might ... ."
"So the question may become ... ."
Please take no offense.
After reading your lengthy post, it's obvious you have a working relationship with some S&W personnel, and some of the people may have become friends.
But you almost sound like a paid, professional apologist for S&W in your post.
But this, from your final words concerning the question, says it all to me:
I just wish you said this at the beginning of your post instead of in the last paragraph.
It would have saved me a lot of reading.
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Are you kidding? I hope so, because the above BS would never occur. You have to be careful how you use satire.
Stupid people often don't recognize satire for what is and take it as fact.
Or are you just trying to stir people up.
The frightening part is some idiots will buy into this fantasy.
Some are probably already reporting to their friends that they saw and heard this themselves on television.
That quote is from your last paragraph.
The rest of your post is sprinkled with a ton of:
"It may ...".
"It might ... ."
"So the question may become ... ."
Please take no offense.
After reading your lengthy post, it's obvious you have a working relationship with some S&W personnel, and some of the people may have become friends.
But you almost sound like a paid, professional apologist for S&W in your post.
But this, from your final words concerning the question, says it all to me:
I just wish you said this at the beginning of your post instead of in the last paragraph.
It would have saved me a lot of reading.
Not an "apologist" for S&W, or any of the other gun companies for which I've received armorer training, support/repair their guns and may have often called to ask questions.
Don't work for S&W nor are paid by them. (Didn't take a job with them when there was an opportunity, and even if it were to come around again, I'm uninterested in a full-time job in my retirement involving constant travel.)
I often offer in my posts that I'm not officially connected to the company, nor am I a licensed gunsmith or anything resembling an "expert". Just an armorer who has gone through a bunch of their classes, supported a bunch of their guns as a working armorer, and who owns a fair number of them.
Feel free to ignore my posts if you're looking for someone who claims to be able to pull back the green curtain and tell tales out of school.
Now you know.Didn't take offense, either.
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