Bear, Trail & Hiking Loads

[Dump1567]

I recently moved to free America with hiking trails only 20 minutes away. This area includes black bear, coyote, mountain lion, & Javelina.

I started to inventory what handgun & ammo I wanted to carry while hiking. Although I do have an old large frame Vaquero in .45 Colt and +P hardcast ammo, I didn't want the weight that goes with it. I also already own various Glock .40's, 9mm's and .357 Mag revolvers.

I figured I would settle on a Glock 29 (compact 10mm) with Buffalo Bore HC bullets.

But then I came across this excellent info. written by Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore. Based on the info. he's providing, it seems I already have the guns I need. And may not even need HC ammo (although that's probably what I'll carry).

I know the topic of trail & bear loads often come-up, so here's the info. that will help with your choice (not sure if these have been posted before).

"Stopping" bears with handgun or rifle cartridges
"Stopping" bears with handgun or rifle cartridges

Trail and Camp Guns article
http://buffalobore.net/Trail&CampGuns.pdf

ALASKAN GUIDE, PHIL SHOEMAKER, USES 9MM OUTDOORSMAN ROUNDS IN An S&W 3954 TO STOP AN ATTACKING GRIZZLY - See story and photos below. (scroll down through link)
9MM +P OUTDOORSMAN Pistol and Handgun Bullets Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

Hard Cast Bullets and Glock Factory Barrels
Hard Cast Bullets in Polygonal Barrels

 

[Imissedagain]

44-45 cal in a DA/SA revolver.
9mm Buffalo HC is what my boy primarily carries in a G19.... big cats etc on Denver/Hiking/Skiing areas..... he knows it's a minimum and is holding off on a G gun in 10mm as he has a 629/4" and grew up with G guns as a South Florida fishingkid.
He just wants to draw and pull the trigger.... no hammer cocking when startled!!!

Use the ones you have, load heavy HC for the 357 and
get a 460 at some point !!!

 

[Nevada Ed]

The 10mm is the best of the "Little Pistol" loads for big game.

The S&W 50 cal. is KING of the hill if you can handle it.......
if not the 44 Magnum is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[Execpro]

I always carried a 41 or 44 mag when going hiking in the deep woods of Maine or Vermont (Ruger Blackhawk).
I would feel very comfortable with a 180gr 357mag and spare speed loaders. Underwood Ammo and Buffalo Bore ammo makes a good round.
The 10mm in 180gr is a good round but concerns of a double feed would prevent me from using the weapon when around Dangerious game. GMO
It will handle the job if needed.
There are many holsters that make light work of a heavy gun. A full loaded 10mm will probably weigh more than a 6 shot revolver.
Enjoy your new home and hike often. At 70plus with major foot rebuild and other surgeries those days are but a fond memory!

Be SAFE and Shoot often!

 

[Texas Star]

You have to load for the emergency situation, bear or cougar attack. Maybe an alligator. In Florida, Burmese pythons, too.

A trail gun for killing small game is another matter. Maybe load for small game only when hunting for camp meat and hope you don't get attacked before reloading with the full power ammo.

Maybe carry a .44 Magnum, but have a .22 in camp for hunting. I like my Marlin M-795 rifle for that. Mine is the stainless model.

I won't consider a Glock or similar striker-fired gun. I consider them to be inherently unsafe.

 

[les.b]

Funny, I was just looking at a Ruger "Alaskan" .454 with a 2 1/2" or 2 3/4" barrel. Handy, not too enormous to carry, and since I have both revolvers and a Winchester 92 in .45 Cokt, which I also reload for, I thought it would be nice to pack on hikes and trout fishing in the woods surrounding my cabin...which is located in bear country.

I have a .44 mag S&W .4" model 29, which I consider adequate for carry in the woods, but thought I'd like to play around with a caliber that I already load for, and have a fair supply of ammo and empty brass for.

And then, I could begin to explore the heavy .45 Colt loads, as well as the .454 Cassul caliber that the Ruger is chambered for.

Just thinking about it....haven't really but anything in motion yet.

But....I would feel pretty confident with the gun.

Best Regards, Les

 

[Texas Star]

I recently moved to free America with hiking trails only 20 minutes away. This area includes black bear, coyote, mountain lion, & Javelina.

I started to inventory what handgun & ammo I wanted to carry while hiking. Although I do have an old large frame Vaquero in .45 Colt and +P hardcast ammo, I didn't want the weight that goes with it. I also already own various Glock .40's, 9mm's and .357 Mag revolvers.

I figured I would settle on a Glock 29 (compact 10mm) with Buffalo Bore HC bullets.

But then I came across this excellent info. written by Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore. Based on the info. he's providing, it seems I already have the guns I need. And may not even need HC ammo (although that's probably what I'll carry).

I know the topic of trail & bear loads often come-up, so here's the info. that will help with your choice (not sure if these have been posted before).

"Stopping" bears with handgun or rifle cartridges
"Stopping" bears with handgun or rifle cartridges

Trail and Camp Guns article
http://buffalobore.net/Trail&CampGuns.pdf

ALASKAN GUIDE, PHIL SHOEMAKER, USES 9MM OUTDOORSMAN ROUNDS IN An S&W 3954 TO STOP AN ATTACKING GRIZZLY - See story and photos below. (scroll down through link)
9MM +P OUTDOORSMAN Pistol and Handgun Bullets Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

The linked articles are excellent reading. But I doubt my ability to shoot more than a .44 Magnum accurately.

I noticed that Tim and his dad killed a black bear with a M-10 .38 and a Colt MK III .357. But the bear was shot from ambush and it ran for a distance before dying.

 

[rwsmith]

Choice of bullet...

Choice of bullet is as critical as caliber.

If I chanced to run into a bear, I wouldn't want HP ammo but an SWC or flat nose for penetration. They will still work on smaller attackers, but I'd prepare for the worst you'd be likely to attack you.

 

[The_Truth]

It's not advisable to shoot many HC rounds through a stock Glock barrel.

My woods carry rotation consists of either my Model 29 3" loaded with Buffalo Bore +p 240gr softcast LSWCHC with a speedloader full of Buffalo Bore 300gr hardcast lead flat nose SWC's ----- or my XDM 10mm loaded with Underwood 200gr XTPs and a spare mag full of Underwood 220gr hardcast lead flat nose SWC's.

If I've got a rifle too I might travel light on the sidearm by carrying a 3" Model 13 with Underwood 158gr SJHP's.

 

[stansdds]

Unless you have an aftermarket barrel in that Glock, I would follow the information in the Glock manual and avoid any plain lead bullet. Polygonal rifling and lead are a bad combination and can result in excessive leading in the bore. With the factory barrel you really should use jacketed, plated, or polymer coated bullets.

The 10mm Auto is a great cartridge and unless you want to heft around a Desert Eagle or search for a good condition L.A.R. Grizzly pistol, it is the most powerful pistol caliber that you can easily obtain. Based on the animals you might encounter in your area, I'd say stoke that Glock with some 180 or 200 grain FMJ, full power (not the FBI reduced recoil stuff) ammo. The nice thing about the 10mm (and 40 S&W) is that FMJ ammo uses truncated cone bullets. It feeds well, penetrates well, and still makes a pretty good sized hole.

 

[Imissedagain]

Funny, I was just looking at a Ruger "Alaskan" .454 with a 2 1/2" or 2 3/4" barrel. Handy, not too enormous to carry, and since I have both revolvers and a Winchester 92 in .45 Cokt, which I also reload for, I thought it would be nice to pack on hikes and trout fishing in the woods surrounding my cabin...which is located in bear country.

I have a .44 mag S&W .4" model 29, which I consider adequate for carry in the woods, but thought I'd like to play around with a caliber that I already load for, and have a fair supply of ammo and empty brass for.

And then, I could begin to explore the heavy .45 Colt loads, as well as the .454 Cassul caliber that the Ruger is chambered for.

Just thinking about it....haven't really but anything in motion yet.

But....I would feel pretty confident with the gun.

Best Regards, Les

We passed on the 454 Alaskan, long ago, as it has a partial grip frame/handle.
Hornady advised that the 454 loads are rough on the guns when we were discussing 460/3.5" loads last September.

While 45 Colt and the 454 Casull are great rounds, I would love to see honest reporting of their accuracy in the X Frame Smiths at 50-100 yds compared to the same bullet in a 460 casing.......
err..... I mean CASE!

We have a '92 Winchester as well and will give some handloads a try in both as Remington 45C ammo was erratic in the Smith.

 

[Dump1567]

I see the Glock factoy barrel and Hard Cast bullet issue has been brought up. Here's Tim's info. on that.

Hard Cast Bullets and Glock Factory Barrels
Hard Cast Bullets in Polygonal Barrels

And I've personally put thousands of rounds of lead bullets (not Hard Cast) through my Glocks when I shot competition (USPSA, IDPA, etc.) with no ill effect. As did (do) many others I competed with. I just kept my barrels cleaned after shooting.

I decided just to go with Underwoods ammo in .40 for my G23 or G27. It pushes a 200 gr. HC bullet at around 950 to 1000 fps. And I ordered some 180 gr. HC HSM Bear ammo for my 2 1/2" S&W 66. It should also push around 1000 to 1100 fps in that short barrel.

I'll eventually get a G29 when I find one.

 

[andy52]

This 24-3 Lew Horton is what I would carry. With a hot load it's capable of dealing with any critter short of a Grizzly.

 

[BearBio]

I have had poor performance from Buffalo Bore in semi-autos with FTF and failure to feed. Much better reliability with Underwood. Buffalo Bore is OK in revolvers.

There is a WORLD of difference between what you need to carry in grizzly/moose country and elsewhere. Remember: if charged you won't get time to fire more than 1-2 shots on an ENRAGED/FRIGHTENED animal loaded with adrenaline! Very different from ambushing a relaxed animal!

In short, any 45 Colt with stiff loads, heavy 40 bullet, revolver magnums (41, 44, 357, 454, etc) will work if you place your shots. The odds remain greater that you will be struck by lightening. In 50 years of hunting (including 10-15 guiding, and 20 as a Wildlife Biologist), I've had to use a pistol in defense only once==on a wounded pig. Much of that was in grizzly/moose country==seen 2+ dozen grizzlies in the wild and 200+ black bears; likely 2000 pigs.

Remember: Sundles wants to sell you ammo and writers want to sell magazines.

 

[biku324]

At risk of seeming mundane, I've comfortably carried a 4" Ruger Security Six (if I go off a horse unexpectedly I don't worry about damaging a nice N-frame) with 158 grain American Eagle JSPs when hiking or on horseback for decades. I know it will end suffering of badly injured horses with no problem. I live in New Mexico mountains and we've had bear and cougar killed within a mile and had their tracks occasionally in our yard and pasture.

 

[elpac3]

I never go hiking in bear country without a buddy and a K-22

 

[stansdds]

I see the Glock factoy barrel and Hard Cast bullet issue has been brought up. Here's Tim's info. on that.

Hard Cast Bullets and Glock Factory Barrels
Hard Cast Bullets in Polygonal Barrels

And I've personally put thousands of rounds of lead bullets (not Hard Cast) through my Glocks when I shot competition (USPSA, IDPA, etc.) with no ill effect. As did (do) many others I competed with. I just kept my barrels cleaned after shooting.

I decided just to go with Underwoods ammo in .40 for my G23 or G27. It pushes a 200 gr. HC bullet at around 950 to 1000 fps. And I ordered some 180 gr. HC HSM Bear ammo for my 2 1/2" S&W 66. It should also push around 1000 to 1100 fps in that short barrel.

I'll eventually get a G29 when I find one.

Thanks for the link on Glocks and lead. That's interesting and makes sense, so long as the cast lead bullet is of sufficient hardness.

 

[WR Moore]

Black bears typically aren't a problem unless you run into a mama bear and her cubs. If you see cubs, quietly back off to create distance. Cougars-or at least some of them-regard us as just another source of protein (and easier to catch than deer). Unless rabid, yotes typically aren't an issue.

You're looking at this as an equipment/hardware issue and it's really a software issue: your ability to accurately and rapidly place shots from an adequate firearm/ammunition combination. I'd hesitate to pick the Vaquero unless you can really do so by a rational measure. The .357 with proper ammo and a couple of speed loaders/speed strips would seem to be the better choice. 158/180 gr soft points by major manufacturers would be my choice. Beware the boutique loads. Perhaps one reload with 125 gr JHPs for the yotes.

Consider the weight of whatever you carry as an aid to developing your physical fitness and also the item that will keep you off the list of folks who end up as critter feces or getting rabies shots. Do spend some time with sources that can show you the vital areas of the various critters from different angles. Don't even think about head shots for a variety of reasons-unless it's through the open mouth aiming for the spine of a charging critter.

I carried an issue 10 mm for ~16 years. I wasn't impressed. If you're trying to rationalize a new toy, hey, it's your money. FWIW, a 158 gr .357 " bullet has the same sectional density as a 200 gr .400 " bullet, better sectional density than the much more common 180 gr bullet. In other words, much better penetration capability using commonly available factory ammuntion.

 

[Stevens]

I haven't seen a bear near where I live,out in the country with a huge swamp for my back yard. But,they, Black Bears, are becoming more common in some areas not too far, about 20 miles from here. Reports of them digging in and turning over garbage cans near houses etc. so I imagine before too long here too.
What about the effectiveness of 12 ga. magnum slugs, or buckshot? I also have a couple of .357 handguns 4" bbl. how would those compare as far as Black Bears are concerned?
Thanks!
Steve W

 

[RoyM52]

forget Buckshot for bears. If you want to scare or shoo them away , use bird shot. If you wish it to be permanent, use slugs. Given the option between a 12 gauge and any hand gun, always use the 12 gauge. {YMMV}