Crisis Intervention at the Range UPDATE 6/22!
- Thread starter 6string
- Start date
- Status
chiefbob81
US Veteran
Went to a shoot like that here at the Beech Ridge Gun Club in Maine, they had almost as many safety officers as attendees, nobody approached the line until instructed to.
If you are going to use the range and do 'downrange' scenario type shooting (walk and shoot,,barricades, ect),,,you can not even think about hold such an even with just one RO.
That group of shooters and on lookers standing around back at the bench is just a big accident awaiting.
Shooters are no different than any other group of people,,they for the most part think they know it all and are safe in the way they conduct themselves.
Ask anyone who drives if they are a good driver and are a safe driver. Sure they are,,it's the other guys on the road.
Tell the shooters not to approach the bench at all,,,they will anyway.
Tell them to never uncase their firearm till they are told to,,they will anyway.
Tell them the actions are to be kept open at all times except when loaded and ready to fire on command of the RO,,they'll walk around with them closed.
Tell them not to go in front of the shooting line till the RO clears it,,they will anyway.
It's like a kindergarten class, only it's made up of people of all ages. Most are absolutely fine, only a couple are problems but you can't turn you back on them. They all need to be watched. They have guns.
As for Jasper the hot head, he's gone as far as I'd be concerned from that range. An Order of Protection perhaps to keep him at distance from returning. It can't physically keep him away but it may help pull his CCW if he returns.
...and why was he carrying CCW at a pistol match?
Range rules are NO loaded guns behind the line.
A hot-head prone to aggression at a pistol match carrying a concealed weapon.
If he thinks he may have to use that CCW on somebody there because they he was 'disrespected',,time for Mr HotHead to be relieved of not only his Range and Club pass,,but his CCW as well.
Maybe he should rake leaves and pick up trash along the Interstate for the Summer weekends too.
Don't wait for the Club Officials to do something. It's clear that they have no intention of doing anything. 2 months gone?,,LE notified at all?
Isn't that RO upset that he was nearly shot, nor the shooter on the line that day?
How about the person that stopped the situation from getting worse and was rewarded with a shove and shouting.
Anyone care at all. Any of the by standers waiting to shoot see anything or care?
If not and it's biz as usual,,leave your Club card on the desk and find another place to shoot.
That group of shooters and on lookers standing around back at the bench is just a big accident awaiting.
Shooters are no different than any other group of people,,they for the most part think they know it all and are safe in the way they conduct themselves.
Ask anyone who drives if they are a good driver and are a safe driver. Sure they are,,it's the other guys on the road.
Tell the shooters not to approach the bench at all,,,they will anyway.
Tell them to never uncase their firearm till they are told to,,they will anyway.
Tell them the actions are to be kept open at all times except when loaded and ready to fire on command of the RO,,they'll walk around with them closed.
Tell them not to go in front of the shooting line till the RO clears it,,they will anyway.
It's like a kindergarten class, only it's made up of people of all ages. Most are absolutely fine, only a couple are problems but you can't turn you back on them. They all need to be watched. They have guns.
As for Jasper the hot head, he's gone as far as I'd be concerned from that range. An Order of Protection perhaps to keep him at distance from returning. It can't physically keep him away but it may help pull his CCW if he returns.
...and why was he carrying CCW at a pistol match?
Range rules are NO loaded guns behind the line.
A hot-head prone to aggression at a pistol match carrying a concealed weapon.
If he thinks he may have to use that CCW on somebody there because they he was 'disrespected',,time for Mr HotHead to be relieved of not only his Range and Club pass,,but his CCW as well.
Maybe he should rake leaves and pick up trash along the Interstate for the Summer weekends too.
Don't wait for the Club Officials to do something. It's clear that they have no intention of doing anything. 2 months gone?,,LE notified at all?
Isn't that RO upset that he was nearly shot, nor the shooter on the line that day?
How about the person that stopped the situation from getting worse and was rewarded with a shove and shouting.
Anyone care at all. Any of the by standers waiting to shoot see anything or care?
If not and it's biz as usual,,leave your Club card on the desk and find another place to shoot.
Sounds like it wasn't. Therein lies the problem.
2152hq said:
RSOing is like herding friggin' cats. The less organized and regimented the activity, the worse it is.
Bullseye, regular weekly league? Easy as pie.
Once-a-month jerk-around-steel-shoot-with-barricades? You couldn't pay me to touch those dumpster fires.
I'm a super-huge fan of clearly-marked waiting areas, marked firing lines, etc.
When I've got folks downrange on square range, I typically stand with my heels on the "no handling behind this line" line, facing the shooters/spectators, looking left and right. Makes it super-easy to spot someone about to break that rule.
OP
A Big "Thank You" to everyone who's taken the time to write so far.
Comments, critiques, related similar events, or detailed replies involving range rules and match procedures... all of this is welcome.
I can assure you that this is all of tremendous help and value.
Personally, it adds a whole new dimension to the importance of this forum.
Feel free to further contribute your opinions. They will all help!
Thanks again!
Comments, critiques, related similar events, or detailed replies involving range rules and match procedures... all of this is welcome.
I can assure you that this is all of tremendous help and value.
Personally, it adds a whole new dimension to the importance of this forum.
Feel free to further contribute your opinions. They will all help!
Thanks again!
OP
One addendum/question....
Given the scenario described in my OP, what are the implications, legally or otherwise, for an individual who commits an assault while in possession of a concealed weapon?
The firearm was not brandished during the altercation, but was nonetheless on his person.
Given the scenario described in my OP, what are the implications, legally or otherwise, for an individual who commits an assault while in possession of a concealed weapon?
The firearm was not brandished during the altercation, but was nonetheless on his person.
I haven't seen mentioned where the fella' trying to help touched the fella' with the pistol. Did he?
Two months. They're probably not going to do anything. If I were a member, I'd have two choices: (1) leave the minute this guy shows up, no matter what; (2) resign, tell them why, and ask for a pro-rata return of membership dues. I'd probably try number one - and keep my eyes open for the clown, and any other safety near-misses. Next near-miss of any sort... gone.
And my neighbors think I'm eccentric for digging a pond in the back field and using what came out for a berm and my own private shooting range.
Someone should ask for the results of the safety committee study.
Seems as if that range has several serious issues. And two months and no results is indicative of one of the issues.
Seems as if that range has several serious issues. And two months and no results is indicative of one of the issues.
OP
Good question.
Yes.
One hand touch to the shoulder.
There wasn't a reaction, like that of someone being startled. He lowered the gun, put it on the bench, and then turned back to have the confrontation.
It appeared conscious.
It was aggressive and escalated the situation.
Last edited:
Then that guy clearly has issues. A touch on the shoulder in that situation is perfectly acceptable. His reaction was not reasonable.
Exactly why I've become a little anti-social in my old age. I have left the range early on more than one occasion because I wasn't comfortable with the guy(s) shooting in the next bay. Too many idiots out there.
Chief Wiggums
Member
yup , immediately
This hobby / passion of ours has zero room for errors , poor judgement and bad habits.
In the event of perceived or potential trouble , it is wise to practice what we preach and avoid the situation.
On behalf of the range that sponsors the event with lax / loose regulations......its downright shameful , amateurs…..
ShivasIrons
Member
I am a bit old school and received my Rangemaster training in the military.
I was taught that I was Accountable and Responsible for the safety of Everyone on the range from O6 down to E1. Everyone was treated with respect and respect was returned. No horseplay or skylarking allowed. I would keep your muzzle pointed downrange and I would place my hands on you to make sure that occurred if you had a momentary lapse of judgement.
Getting soft on safety will get people injured. Period. There are no do overs with respect to gun safety.
The Hot head needs to go.
The leadership needs to have a Safety Stand down and get their heads out of their backside.
I was taught that I was Accountable and Responsible for the safety of Everyone on the range from O6 down to E1. Everyone was treated with respect and respect was returned. No horseplay or skylarking allowed. I would keep your muzzle pointed downrange and I would place my hands on you to make sure that occurred if you had a momentary lapse of judgement.
Getting soft on safety will get people injured. Period. There are no do overs with respect to gun safety.
The Hot head needs to go.
The leadership needs to have a Safety Stand down and get their heads out of their backside.
I'm a certified range officer and board member of our club. He would be gone if it came to board, which would require a range officer's or board member's action. We have given people another chance to retain their membership if they have been with the club any amount of time and admit wrong doing and accept the consequences of their actions.
I'm not as hot headed as some of the guys and tend to believe you can turn issues into a teaching moment and often this works out, some times it doesn't and I am forced to either give them their money back for a daily fee or send them packing for the day if they are members. I've never had one guy go to the board in the belief that he was right and I was wrong.
We are open to the public on Mondays and Fridays, I don't like it but its a public service that we hope helps to keep us in business. We don't have a way of knowing how much somebody knows about firearms but it doesn't take long to figure that out. We work with people and try to be helpful and its often rewarding, sometimes not so.
I'm watchful with the group of guys that I shoot with due to their advanced age. Muzzle loaders average age is probably over 50-55, many of the guys are over 70 and some actively shooting in their 80's. They are often too familiar with their equipment and lazy about muzzle control, I hate to correct guys at that advanced age, I'm nearly 68. I had a guy come down from a town north of here to shoot during a match and he had developed a fancy little twirl with his rifle after every offhand shot, probably to attract the country girls or something. He did it the first time and it almost looked like an accident, a couple of the guys rolled their eyes. After he did it the second time I went over and told him that he was going to have to keep his muzzle pointed downrange at all times, he nodded. He did it again and I told him that if he was going to continue he could pack his gear right now and save us all the grief. He did just that and ruined the day for his buddy that was with him, who told us that he was normally a good guy but probably off his medication that day.
I'm not as hot headed as some of the guys and tend to believe you can turn issues into a teaching moment and often this works out, some times it doesn't and I am forced to either give them their money back for a daily fee or send them packing for the day if they are members. I've never had one guy go to the board in the belief that he was right and I was wrong.
We are open to the public on Mondays and Fridays, I don't like it but its a public service that we hope helps to keep us in business. We don't have a way of knowing how much somebody knows about firearms but it doesn't take long to figure that out. We work with people and try to be helpful and its often rewarding, sometimes not so.
I'm watchful with the group of guys that I shoot with due to their advanced age. Muzzle loaders average age is probably over 50-55, many of the guys are over 70 and some actively shooting in their 80's. They are often too familiar with their equipment and lazy about muzzle control, I hate to correct guys at that advanced age, I'm nearly 68. I had a guy come down from a town north of here to shoot during a match and he had developed a fancy little twirl with his rifle after every offhand shot, probably to attract the country girls or something. He did it the first time and it almost looked like an accident, a couple of the guys rolled their eyes. After he did it the second time I went over and told him that he was going to have to keep his muzzle pointed downrange at all times, he nodded. He did it again and I told him that if he was going to continue he could pack his gear right now and save us all the grief. He did just that and ruined the day for his buddy that was with him, who told us that he was normally a good guy but probably off his medication that day.
After reading everything here, I don't believe a public range is a safe place anymore.
Everyone behind the line and spectators are "accidents waiting to happen". "People will always break the safety rules", etc.
Maybe that's all true, but it sure shines a dim light on we shooters as a group doesn't it?
A bit depressing to read of it.
Everyone behind the line and spectators are "accidents waiting to happen". "People will always break the safety rules", etc.
Maybe that's all true, but it sure shines a dim light on we shooters as a group doesn't it?
A bit depressing to read of it.
I'm like that, but once he shoved the RSO--don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Jessie said:
I'm presuming you're being sarcastic. Couple things.
The only public range I've been on...really wasn't that bad. But yeah, I saw a kid shooting a semi-auto .22LR into the floor and walls, intentionally, while his father ignored him from the next lane. RO wasn't even looking at the range. I'll take people's word for it that they're bad, but I really doubt club ranges are any better.
Two--yes, a large group of people standing around and waiting to shoot is a problem area. That's the mentality you have to have when you're operating an event. You can't just have RSOs milling around, you have to assign them to monitor the places where danger can come from. And the larger a group of people you bring together, the more likely it is you're going to find,say, a moron who wants to unbox and holster his pistol in a spectator area.
Third, I don't think shooters are all bad. Probably half are at least okay-ish, 40% have an occasional slip-up or maybe aren't as conscientious as they should be, and the remaining 10% are rather over-represented.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
Sold/Withdrawn
Ultradot Matchdot II W/Weigatinny S&W Revolver rail
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
My favorite story from my cop days. Two naked little people and a parrot- Latest: YeshuaIsa53
-
-
