Walkingwolf
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Chances of survival increase if a person does not get shot.
Factors in Surviving Gunfights
- Thread starter gerhard1
- Start date
fredj338
Member
My mechanical skill level with a handgun is high, my tactical training over the years is solid, but I will always assume my attacker is going to be better in the fight. IMO, anything else is a false sense of security. I have seen enough LEO shootings vids to see where the attacker wins just because he is more determined & the LEO skill set didn't hold up. Its all about getting as many hits on my attacker as fast as I can deliver form contact to 50y if need be. Which takes me back to why I don't carry a pocket gun or 5shot. We don't get to pick our fight or the attacker in it. Plan for the worst, hope for the best, which is no fight.
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zogger
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Actually the advantage a criminal has is his willingness to use and his comfort with violence; something a regular person probably does not have. A criminal will not hesitate to shoot while a normal person might.
I'm not sure how any of that is relevant to my statement, but shouldn't we prioritize our training? We all have a finite amount of time, energy and money, so I don't want to waste mine.
We don't get to pick our scenario, but some are a lot more likely than others. A contact out to 3-5 yards is extremely likely, but past 7-10 or so isn't and 25 yards would be so astronomically improbable for me to give it much thought. I don't care all that much about most LEO shootings since they have very little in common with my needs.
I already know that you dislike 5 shots revolvers and think you'll be able to keep your auto running in a contact situation due to some highly advanced unnamed training, but who knows. The revolver is inherently better in that role, and you'd be hard pressed to find many reputable instructors who understand the issue that would disagree. Contrary to the cliche of "you're looking for a hardware solution to a software problem", the tools you choose matter a geat deal no matter how skilled you might think you are, but people seem to apply that concept selectively.
Believing you can keep a Glock running in ECQ as effectively as a hammerless snub is akin to thinking that a 6 shot revolver is adequate for a ranged gunfight with 6 determined armed attackers if you "know how to shoot". Just make six head shots right? Or how about making multiple 50 yard hits with a snub? Isn't that simply or "software"/training issue or should we actually live in reality?
I watched Apollo 13, Moonraker, The Right Stuff, Armageddon, and Gravity multiple times. Doesn't mean I'm ready for Mars . . .
Is this based on all your experience dealing with criminals Fred?
Maybe if you watched The Martian
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NEVER!
In my 30.5 years of REAL crime fighting/dealing with attackers (on and off duty) I NEVER thought my adversary was better. Ever. Why would I? Crawl up in a ball and quit? Nope.
Once was engaged with a guy who was much smaller but was wearing me out. (Duty incident...not a bar fight. ) Broke my dominant hand on his head and then had to fight one handed. Finally 'won'; never thought about shooting him. Duty incident.
But NEVER considered him better...later found he was a heroin addict in a methadone maintenance program thus why my efforts were a bit futile at first.
Bottom line: No one is 'better' if we must be engaged. Never for me! Absolute. Period.
Be safe.
In my 30.5 years of REAL crime fighting/dealing with attackers (on and off duty) I NEVER thought my adversary was better. Ever. Why would I? Crawl up in a ball and quit? Nope.
Once was engaged with a guy who was much smaller but was wearing me out. (Duty incident...not a bar fight. ) Broke my dominant hand on his head and then had to fight one handed. Finally 'won'; never thought about shooting him. Duty incident.
But NEVER considered him better...later found he was a heroin addict in a methadone maintenance program thus why my efforts were a bit futile at first. Bottom line: No one is 'better' if we must be engaged. Never for me! Absolute. Period.
Be safe.
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fredj338
Member
Is there a point there Muggy? If it is using ones support hand to move someone, well in an immediate confrontation, she may not see it & I do, hence pushing her or moving her out of the way as I present. Yeah I practice that. It may be oh, a child that or someone with me that has no idea what is what. Good try though.
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No, other than the one I highlighted. Again, I protect me and mine, and leave "presenting" to others looking to play hero . . .
"And most people cant process stimuli under stress".
That is true. I'm one of them. About a half century ago, back in my young and somewhat stupider days, a couple of friends and I were in a bar fight with 3 or 4 other guys. One of them pulled a snubbie on me. I was totally unwilling to process the stimulus of being shot, so I immediately took it away from him and put it in my pocket. I went by his workplace the next day and returned it - but I did take the precaution of unloading it first, not wanting to be stimulated again.
That is true. I'm one of them. About a half century ago, back in my young and somewhat stupider days, a couple of friends and I were in a bar fight with 3 or 4 other guys. One of them pulled a snubbie on me. I was totally unwilling to process the stimulus of being shot, so I immediately took it away from him and put it in my pocket. I went by his workplace the next day and returned it - but I did take the precaution of unloading it first, not wanting to be stimulated again.
IrishFritz
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Thank you Gerhard1 for inserting some rationality into the gunfighting debate. I being an old man have a perspective on gun ownership that that is no longer current nor perhaps particularly relevant in today's society, to whit: Guns are collector's items or sporting goods- sporting goods that carried the potential for self defense but that was not the reason we owned them. We were hobbyists, not gun fighters. My mentors were virtually all WW2 veterans and many had indeed killed other men in defense of our country, still they were hobbyists. Perhaps we should recognize that for many of us, gun ownership is still primarily a hobby. I am not a fool and I have met a number of folks who wished to do me harm over my 75 years of life (I'm still here), but I don't choose to exercise my hobby in the practice of training to kill another human being when I realize that the real chance of needing to protect myself is very, very small. I suspect that I am not alone in my belief.
Lots of info here and well worth reading. However if avoidance is not an option you must have the will to pull the trigger and you must hit the target on the first shot. Any reasonable caliber is OK.
One well placed .22LR is worth more than ten .44 mags spread over the countryside.
Assuming your opponent is better than you is a good start but being better than your opponent wins every time so long as he/she can't deliver.
The most dangerous person I know isn't the man who has many days, weeks, months on the battlefield, it is the man who is unafraid to die. The man for whom death is a blessing.
ATB
Assuming your opponent is better than you is a good start but being better than your opponent wins every time so long as he/she can't deliver.
The most dangerous person I know isn't the man who has many days, weeks, months on the battlefield, it is the man who is unafraid to die. The man for whom death is a blessing.
ATB
Go play CQB Airsoft. If you don't know what that is, google up some youtube videos. It is the best training money can't buy, and will be a humbling experience to all those who think they're shooters. Running around in a semi-lit building with a bunch of reckless teenagers trying to kill you simply can't be simulated. It is the closest thing to actual gunfights you will experience. It certainly changed my thinking.
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I'll stick to Call Of Duty. I can do it from a recliner with beer and Hot Pockets.
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