Customer shoots 2 armed robbers

Recusant

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I'm glad no one but the BGs got hurt BUT I'm always concerned about situations that involve folks imagining themselves to be the Lone Ranger and inserting themselves into these situations.

I spent more than 25 years in the news business as a photographer, reporter, editor and managing editor and if I learned one thing, it is to take EVERY news item with a large grain of salt.

Fact of the matter is, we won't ever know exactly what happened.

That being said, it appears to me that the shooter did not "insert" himself into the situation, he was already there. And we have no way of knowing how he truly felt. Whether what he experienced rose to the level where a "reasonable and prudent person" would fear for their life we may never know. Not being a LEO, of course he had no duty to act, but I would still hesitate to characterize him as "the Lone Ranger."

Those of us here in VA who have concealed handgun permits might use this sad incident to ask ourselves what we might have done had we been in that store.

As for me, I don't know.
 
Not to be funny but I try to make it a practice to stay out of 7-11s at 2 o'clock in the morning. Nothing good happens at 0200 hours that I can think of. However, that said, if you must be out at that hour and you must enter a 7-11 type of business it is best to be prepared.

I always told my guys that anyone out in the middle of the night is either delivering newspapers, a taxi carrying a drunk home, the cops or someone that is up to no good...
 
I always told my guys that anyone out in the middle of the night is either delivering newspapers, a taxi carrying a drunk home, the cops or someone that is up to no good...

Not true at all .. many like myself got off between 2 and 3 AM
and would be going home at those hours .. many times over 50 to 75 people would be leaving for home after working overtime at the top 50 Fortune 500 company we worked at !!

An the 7/11 type store's are usually the only thing open to get something to eat or drink at that hour !!
 
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I was at a gun show of all things , a tall guy and a shorter dude with a girl were talking about robbing some one back the in hall rest room The one says yea but everyone around here is carrying a gun . I picked up my case of 7.62x39 and moved up the hall further to wait for my buddy. Gun`s are good .People choose to rob and loot anything may happen .
 
You didn't tell anyone? Like, maybe, and I'm just spitballin' here, let's say, the cops ? ? ?

I was at a gun show of all things , a tall guy and a shorter dude with a girl were talking about robbing some one back the in hall rest room The one says yea but everyone around here is carrying a gun . I picked up my case of 7.62x39 and moved up the hall further to wait for my buddy. Gun`s are good .People choose to rob and loot anything may happen .
 
I read the article. It's unclear whether the armed citizen was threatened or otherwise thought he had to intervene. A bad situation for the robbers but it could have been much worse for the victims.

I agree it's unclear if the armed citizen perceived there was an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury and that's a critical item as VA is an affirmative defense state. "No one points a gun at me and gets away with it" isn't a statement I'd choose to make before shooting someone in that legal environment, it implies that the motive may have been something other than an imminent threat.

IMHO, the armed citizen in question is very lucky that there were other bystanders who witnessed the robbery and shooting and are hailing him as a hero.

It could have been spun much differently. One of the suspects had a CO2 pistol that looked like a firearm. The suspects are also believed to have committed other robberies that night and on recent nights - robberies where no one was hurt, suggesting there was no risk of the victims getting shot, and thus no imminent threat. VA does not allow deadly force in defense of property, and certainly not defense of someone else's property.

To be fair, none of those facts were clearly known to the armed citizen at the time. None the less, a police chief with an aggressive anti-gun agenda, or a state's attorney with a similar anti-gun agenda could have resulted in the armed citizen being arrested and charged. Parts of VA are pro-gun, other parts are clearly anti-gun.

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In any self defense shooting, if you add in some Monday morning quarterbacking, throw in a healthy pinch of anti-gun public outcry, and stir it with an anti-gun political agenda, you have a recipe where a well meaning armed citizen can easily end up in criminal or civil court.

With that in mind my first line of self defense is avoiding situations that require me to employ any other methods of self defense.
 
I agree it's unclear if the armed citizen perceived there was an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury and that's a critical item as VA is an affirmative defense state. "No one points a gun at me and gets away with it" isn't a statement I'd choose to make before shooting someone in that legal environment, it implies that the motive may have been something other than an imminent threat.

IMHO, the armed citizen in question is very lucky that there were other bystanders who witnessed the robbery and shooting and are hailing him as a hero.

It could have been spun much differently. One of the suspects had a CO2 pistol that looked like a firearm. The suspects are also believed to have committed other robberies that night and on recent nights - robberies where no one was hurt, suggesting there was no risk of the victims getting shot, and thus no imminent threat. VA does not allow deadly force in defense of property, and certainly not defense of someone else's property.

To be fair, none of those facts were clearly known to the armed citizen at the time. None the less, a police chief with an aggressive anti-gun agenda, or a state's attorney with a similar anti-gun agenda could have resulted in the armed citizen being arrested and charged. Parts of VA are pro-gun, other parts are clearly anti-gun.

------

In any self defense shooting, if you add in some Monday morning quarterbacking, throw in a healthy pinch of anti-gun public outcry, and stir it with an anti-gun political agenda, you have a recipe where a well meaning armed citizen can easily end up in criminal or civil court.

With that in mind my first line of self defense is avoiding situations that require me to employ any other methods of self defense.
This surprises me about Virginia. I get that rules vary from state to state, but I thought one of common rules from state to state was that the act of threatening someone with a firearm is considered a deadly force attack. You aren't required to put your faith in the generosity of the BG that just threatened you with a gun. In that way the "No one points a gun at me and gets away with it" slogan might have some validity. It's not about defending property. It's about defending yourself or a third party from a deadly force threat with a firearm.

I also think it's odd Virginia would required you to inspect the BG's weapon to verify it's actually a real weapon and not a CO2 gun or a toy replica with the red tip cut off.

I'm not advocating running in to a stop-n-rob like the Lone Ranger, but it would seem like if a BG comes in displaying a pistol, you have no way to divine his intent, so you have a legitimate self defense interest.
 
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In some states it doesn't matter if you are using a toy gun to commit a crime. You pull a toy gun and someone dies from a hart attack its murder.
There should be federal law that those brandishing weapons in crimes can be shot with no legal jepardy. Also these criminals that have extensive records suing police for excessive force and such shoul be excluded from filing such cases. Illegals with weapons are terrorist. We need some common sense again. This sounds like the Wild West but would actually be the opposite. Today most level headed people don't want involved in any gun situations. The legal issues can ruin you even if you are cleared. The police are under the same pressure. They are hesitant to act to protect themselves from prosicution by activist officials.
 
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