FOCUS ON THE CRIMINAL

[murphydog]

"Not sure what a "visibly loaded rifle" means? Magazine inserted? Who knows if it has rounds? Bolt closed? Again, who knows? Bolt open, dust cover closed? Again, who knows? Loaded chamber indicator visible from the produce aisle? Unlikely. Help me out with that statement . . . ?"

Magazine inserted, action closed. You know, how not to hand over a gun to someone to inspect, while reassuring them it is unloaded. Also, from a news report:

"The Springfield Police Department could not confirm the nature of statements said by the man to those inside of the Walmart, but they do confirm that the man had loaded weapons, and over one hundred rounds of ammunition."

"Again, the action of the moron, on the face of it, without a threat, a verbal statement, an aggressive action, etc. . . , was perfectly legal."

"I think that people who think arresting this fella' is perfectly okay are falling into the trap that the gun grabbers have set."

So after the fire alarm gets pulled, the guy runs out the emergency exit and is detained by the CCW holder, the police should have said..."oops, sorry sir, we didn't realize you were simply exercising your rights, so just be on your way. We'll be sure to give the Battlefield police officer who was seriously injured responding to this your condolences and best wishes for a speedy recovery." Or?

"I don't understand what looking at capabilities means. My Jeep has the capability of raging through the front door of Wal Mart. If I park facing the door, am I a threat?"

Well, no. People park facing the door all the time. Guys with body armor and guns are the exception.

Also, I doubt you'll be filming yourself driving down aisle 15 looking for a quart of milk, especially since you now own no guns.

By the way, I happen to agree with the "moron" part. Let's see if anything comes of it.

 

[Watchdog]

This is third party information from a retired police officer.

There are only two laws needed in this country.

1. Misdemeanor stupid in public.
2. Felony stupid in public.

If that was really his philosophy, then hopefully he was forced to retire.

 

[LPD256]

Muss-Sorry to hear of your gun tragedy. You know where I am at Tulsa in November if you need help searching for ones to replace losses. I'd even bring you a couple loaners if you need something specific.

Jh

 

[Muss Muggins]

We will just have to agree to disagree . . .

"Not sure what a "visibly loaded rifle" means? Magazine inserted? Who knows if it has rounds? Bolt closed? Again, who knows? Bolt open, dust cover closed? Again, who knows? Loaded chamber indicator visible from the produce aisle? Unlikely. Help me out with that statement . . . ?"

Magazine inserted, action closed. You know, how not to hand over a gun to someone to inspect, while reassuring them it is unloaded. Also, from a news report:

"The Springfield Police Department could not confirm the nature of statements said by the man to those inside of the Walmart, but they do confirm that the man had loaded weapons, and over one hundred rounds of ammunition."

"Again, the action of the moron, on the face of it, without a threat, a verbal statement, an aggressive action, etc. . . , was perfectly legal."

"I think that people who think arresting this fella' is perfectly okay are falling into the trap that the gun grabbers have set."

So after the fire alarm gets pulled, the guy runs out the emergency exit and is detained by the CCW holder, the police should have said..."oops, sorry sir, we didn't realize you were simply exercising your rights, so just be on your way. We'll be sure to give the Battlefield police officer who was seriously injured responding to this your condolences and best wishes for a speedy recovery." Or?

"I don't understand what looking at capabilities means. My Jeep has the capability of raging through the front door of Wal Mart. If I park facing the door, am I a threat?"

Well, no. People park facing the door all the time. Guys with body armor and guns are the exception.

Also, I doubt you'll be filming yourself driving down aisle 15 looking for a quart of milk, especially since you now own no guns.

By the way, I happen to agree with the "moron" part. Let's see if anything comes of it.

 

[murphydog]

Actually, you and I probably would agree more than disagree on this and other topics, but the debate between "can" and "should" you do (fill in the blank) will continue long after we are both gone.

 

[stansdds]

I agree on focusing on the criminal, leave the law abiding alone! For the millions of us who own firearms for protection, hunting, target shooting, or the joy of collecting, quit making up laws designed to make us miserable. Focus on the clown who posts on social media or tells their friends and/or family that they are going to commit a crime or are planning to commit a crime. Planning to commit a crime is a crime, it's called conspiracy. Planning a mass attack also falls under terrorism laws. I also think that people who know someone had planned to commit or said they wanted to commit such crimes and remained silent could be tried as being complicit to the crime.

I happen to know a young man who, in a drunken rage, texted a threat. I doubt he would have actually carried out his threat, but it was a text and that text was turned over to the local authorities. He ended up pleading guilty to felony threatening, spent 3 months in jail and now has a 5 year suspended felony sentence. With the felony conviction, he is no longer allowed possession of nor can be near ammunition or firearms. The point of this is, a threat was made, the threat was reported, and an arrest and subsequent conviction occurred with no injuries or deaths.

 

[Protected One]

Well, one of the enumerated "known threats" in that article is a young man who, legally, walked into a Wal-Mart in Springfield, Missouri with a slung AR. He was filming himself to see if Wal-Mart honored legal open carry.

Walk into the store. Walk around for awhile (since he obviously shopping for anything), and then walk out! If no action is taken by store management he now knows they honor open carry.

What does FILMING himself have to do with seeing if they honor open carry?

 

[Protected One]

I agree on focusing on the criminal, leave the law abiding alone! For the millions of us who own firearms for protection, hunting, target shooting, or the joy of collecting, quit making up laws designed to make us miserable. Focus on the clown who posts on social media or tells their friends and/or family that they are going to commit a crime or are planning to commit a crime.

Well said!

 

[Protected One]

I don't understand what looking at capabilities means. My Jeep has the capability of raging through the front door of Wal Mart. If I park facing the door, am I a threat?

Well, if someone ever drives a jeep through the doors of a Walmart and kills people, then the following week YOU are seen "filming yourself" with your jeep running and pointed at the front doors of a Walmart, I'm fairly sure you will be treated as a threat...whether you are or not.

 

[KSDeputy]

I dealt with criminals my entire 30 year career. In KS any law abiding citizen can carry a handgun openly or concealed. I saw a guy in a store yesterday with a pistol on his belt. My personal opinion, which does NOT mirror the law, is that open carry should be reserved for peace officers displaying a badge. I do not find fault with law abiding citizens carrying concealed. A few years ago some criminals robbed Academy Sports in Topeka, and made off with as many long guns as they could carry. When they got to the parking lot an armed citizen drew down on them, they dropped all of the long guns, and left. I believe they were caught later. This was a text book example of a good guy with a gun stopping some bad guys with guns. This is why I have long been in favor of law abiding citizens carrying concealed. We have a lot of work to do on mass shootings. Red flag laws are not the answer in my opinion. Good guys with guns, are. Gun crimes are very strange. Instead of blaming the criminal, people want to blame the tool he used. This is insane. Guns do not commit crimes, evil criminals do. They are at fault. I opened my safe yesterday and watched it all day. Not one gun moved, certainly none of them committed a crime. Blame the person who misuses a tool to commit a crime, be it a rock, crossbow, knife or gun.

 

[arjay]

The problem with open carry is that no one knows the mindset of the person carrying.Could be harmless or not.This clown in Walmart claims he was making a statement.We don't really know if he planned to start shooting or not.My hunch is that he intended to but chickened out

 

[ISCS Yoda]

We don't really know if he planned to start shooting or not.My hunch is that he intended to but chickened out

I totally disagree - I think this jerkwad LITERALLY was pushing the envelope to see what Wal-Mart would do. The problem with that is that is completely felony stupid! It's just a week or two after a mass shooting with a rifle at a Texas Wal-Mart and another in an entertainment venue in Ohio - the whole country is being bombarded with this news and much of it is leftist BAN THOSE GUNS stuff. That's NOT the week you want to walk into a Wal-Mart LOOKING like a terrorist just to see what would happen.

Again, the action of the moron, on the face of it, without a threat, a verbal statement, an aggressive action, etc. . . , was perfectly legal. I don't understand what looking at capabilities means. My Jeep has the capability of raging through the front door of Wal Mart. If I park facing the door, am I a threat?

As Muss said, we will all never agree, but the carrying of a rifle (magazine in or out is irrelevant) whilst wearing body armor and an openly carried handgun IS AN AGGRESSIVE ACTION in 21st century America. Adding threats in terms of verbal statements or taking what appears to be "aggressive action" is no longer required. Disturbing the peace laws and "making terroristic threat" laws are very broad.

Years ago I had a client who was supposed to be taking medication for manic-depressive behavior. He would routinely fail to take his drugs. He was young and was walking inside his college library when someone harassed him. His response was along the lines of "I think I'll blow this place up" or "I want to kill everyone here" or some combination of the two. He's carrying books. He has no weapons visible. No means of literally carrying out what his mouth just spewed out.

A quick 911 call and he's under arrest for making terroristic threats and he spent most of a year locked up.

So, Muss is right - parking your Jeep in front of the store door is innocuous and harmless. But sit in it and race that engine and change gears so you lurch back and forth and see what happens.

 

[fredj338]

The problem with open carry is that no one knows the mindset of the person carrying.Could be harmless or not.This clown in Walmart claims he was making a statement.We don't really know if he planned to start shooting or not.My hunch is that he intended to but chickened out

Why my line in the sand is long guns carried openly in public. There is really no point unless you just want the attention, no matter how negative that may be. So I view them as a serious potential threat. Just common sense but then soooo many lack that today. They prefer to run on ideology instead. There are a lot of crazy. self absorbed people out there. Guns, knives, cars, doesn't matter really, all potential serious threats.

 

[Bubba2014]

South Carolina has fairly liberal gun laws, and they work very well. Also, it is quite easy to get a concealed weapons permit. As a retired police officer I have no problems with our gun laws, however, I do have reservations about open carry, because you will usually have a problem with some one who slings an AR or AK over their shoulder and walks around to find out how the police will react. The police have enough problems to deal with today without dealing with stupid people with guns. PS, I strongly support the 2nd Amendment and the NRA

 

[mrchuck]

Maybe the BEST post I have ever read on this subject.
THANK YOU !!!

 

[Deckard427]

Citizens are now being 'Red Flagged' for stating that they will use force to defend themselves if attacked by ANTIFA. However, nothing will happen to the ANTIFA folks who actually do attack them.