Lesson from the street

[pmc847]

Is 20 rounds enough? Is 40, 50, 60 enough?

American Handgunner The Lessons Of Tim Gramins - American Handgunner

 

[WR Moore]

There's another thread on this somewhere.

 

[JNewell]

Not news. I learned many years ago that you can never have too much of two things: ammunition and water.

The question is: how much can you carry?

 

[murphydog]

I recall reading this article when it was first published. It certainly pertains to LEOs and the situations they might see, but as far as I have read (jewelry store robberies and similar incidents aside) I have not yet read of a CCW holder or the (armed) victim of a home invasion ever having to reload. This may simply be a detail left out of media reports.

 

[Univibe]

I recall reading this article when it was first published. It certainly pertains to LEOs and the situations they might see, but as far as I have read (jewelry store robberies and similar incidents aside) I have not yet read of a CCW holder or the (armed) victim of a home invasion ever having to reload. This may simply be a detail left out of media reports.

Google "sherman street shootout"

 

[gman51]

Rather than feel I needed more than two magazines of ammo I believe I would move or not go into an area known for high danger/violence.

Personally I think if 7-14 rounds isn't enough then I would guess I probably will not live through it. Unlike in the movies 5 shooting at me will probably not all miss me while I hit them all.

 

[murphydog]

Google "sherman street shootout"

I also read about this incident when it occurred (early 2019). Not intended as a criticism, but encountering "five armed intruders" and pursuing them into your front yard with your AK may not happen every day. Good for him for surviving and hope he moved to a better neighborhood...

 

[oldiesradio1560]

My daily carry is a 380EZ with 8+1 Rounds first and I carry 2-4 magazines of 8 rounds each. So I'm ready with 25-41 rounds.

 

[Wavygravy]

If you're a civilian in a non-urban area -- in reality you are most likely to need 1-4 rounds and a lawyer.

 

[WR Moore]

Depending upon how "non-urban" you may be, you'll need enough to resolve your problem and maintain control until the LLEA moseys on over to see what the fuss is all about.

 

[jmcghee]

Have enough ammo

I recall reading this article when it was first published. It certainly pertains to LEOs and the situations they might see, but as far as I have read (jewelry store robberies and similar incidents aside) I have not yet read of a CCW holder or the (armed) victim of a home invasion ever having to reload. This may simply be a detail left out of media reports.

Google Lance Thomas the LA watchmaker

 

[ParadiseRoad]

...my instinct...when Ray was approaching the Crown Vic...gun ablazin'...

...would be to run Ray over with the Crown Vic...

 

[Mister X]

I'm not a cop, so I'm good with only a 5-shot snub. In a situation like this, I would have simply driven away. There would have been no shoot-out.

As a civilian, the odds of my snub being inadequate due to limited ammo capacity is exceedingly low. I could carry a high capacity autoloader thinking I'm better prepared, but they come with their own trade-offs. So, it's a matter of determining what trade-offs make the most sense for what I'm most likely to encounter. Not even my Glocks can come close to matching the reliabilty of my revolvers. Considering I won't likely be able to fire two handed from a stable stance in an actual defense scenario, the possibility of experiencing a malfunction isn't exactly unrealistic and I don't expect to have time to clear it. And I can get my snub into action quicker than any auto. Plus, contact scenarios(physical assaults, knife and bludgeon attacks etc,) are something else to think about and a enclosed hammer snub excels there. Higher capacity would be better with everything else being equal, but that's not the case and I don't make gear choices based on a handful of outliers.

Plus, carrying a high capacity weapon and extra magazines can be a real burden. It's uncomfortable and gets heavy. Long term it can even actually cause physical damage to your body. And for what real purpose? The possibility that you might be involved in something that is about as likely as being struck by lightning and winning the lottery on the same day? To me, that's just isn't rational thinking.

Worth a read for perspective IMO... The Thinking Gunfighter: THE MYTH OF MURPHY'S LAW: Why "better to have it and not need it" fails the test.

 

[sigp220.45]

I carried spare ammo when I was a LEO, but now its just whatever is in the gun.

I'm not a big fan of the "what will the scalp-hunting prosecutor think" school of thought, but sometimes the pocket-dump threads make me wonder. You fire two rounds in a self-defense situation and then lay out on the trunk lid of the nice policeman's car two guns, two spare mags, a karambit, two flashlights, and a tourniquet. In a close call it may tip the balance to "looking for trouble". Maybe, maybe not.

I don't carry all that stuff because I hate carrying stuff. I don't even wear a watch. Wallet, keys, phone, dollar store readers, gun in my waistband.

 

[murphydog]

Google Lance Thomas the LA watchmaker

See post 4, above.

"...but as far as I have read (jewelry store robberies and similar incidents aside) I have not yet read of a CCW holder or the (armed) victim of a home invasion ever having to reload."

 

[Mister X]

I view home defense and concealed carry very differently. I see a much greater potential need for higher capacity mags and ranged shooting in HD. My carry weapon is for getting me out of trouble and dealing with close-quarter threats that I can't avoid. Reactive response or flee the area. Pretty much the same with entering and leaving my house. At home, I may have to make a stand. I'll have more warning and lead time since nobody is getting into my home quickly once we are locked down. Most intruders will be deterred by armed resistance, but maybe not all and it doesn't hurt anything to keep a couple of high-capacity Glocks around.

This is an interesting case and one of the few incidents I've come across involving a high number of rounds being fired in an home defense situation....

Report: So many bullets flew in Livingston shootout that investigators lost count — they estimate 60 before the intruder shot himself | Communities | theadvocate.com

 

[Deckard427]

I carry a .380 EZ when out and about. I feel comfortable with 8 + 1. At home, Ico and Tika (my German shepherds) handle security. I feel comfortable with that also.

 

[sigp220.45]

This is an interesting case and one of the few incidents I've come across involving a high number of rounds being fired in an home defense situation....

Report: So many bullets flew in Livingston shootout that investigators lost count — they estimate 60 before the intruder shot himself | Communities | theadvocate.com

Haha - this guy violated one of my fundamental rules of home invasion prevention:

" Averett took up a position in a hallway, firing into a locked bedroom where Johnson was holed up, returning fire while his girlfriend — Averett's estranged wife — took cover in a bathtub."

1 - Don't deal drugs out of your house, or post photos of said drugs or cash on social media.

2 - If you are fronted dope to sell, repay your supplier promptly. Maybe include a nice tip.

3 - Don't have someone else's wife in your house. If her other half was recently released from prison, move to position #1.

 

[robertrwalsh]

I always carry at least one reload, often two. As a private citizen I have had to shoot twice, both times one shot did the job (both times for 4-leggers, not bipeds). That being said, if you have to shoot at all the odds have already gone against you. A reload available is comforting.

 

[Rastoff]

I'm not a cop, so...

Most of us aren't cops so, this situation would never have happened to us. This was a determined assailant who was bent on killing the next cop that pulled him over. None of us would have pulled this guy over. None of us would have ever had any dealings with this guy under any circumstances. Even if we did, he would have been more interested in running from us because we didn't represent a threat that would follow him and put him in prison. So, in this case, he was prepared to die rather than be taken alive.

What this case does emphasize is the value of aiming. This criminal didn't receive a vital hit until the police officer "took his time quickly" and focused on the front sight. Until then he was just blasting away. Of course it's easy for me to say that in the comfort of my own home and while no lead is flying my direction.

Nobody ever has or ever will leave a gun fight wishing they had less ammo. But there is a limit to what a person is willing to carry.

I always carry a spare mag. Not for more ammo, but in case of a malfunction. If I have a malfunction, I at least want the ability to get back in the fight. It's very unlikely that the spare mag would ever be needed either for more ammo or as a malfunction fix.