Ed McGivern was a leech !

[opoefc]

I've been downsizing 100 yrs of misc S&W archives and ran across a letter from Geo. H. Garrison, Sales Mgr for Remington Arms Co. to Mr. W.F. Roper at S&W, dtd. Jan. 15, 1924 "Subject: Ammunition for testing " Quoted, as follows:

"We wish you would refer to your letter of January 7th which is an answer to our letter of Dec. 27th on the subject of free ammunition and firearms for Mr. Ed McGivern, Box 1778, Lewistown, Montana.

We thoroughly appreciate your position and can also understand that we are much in the same boat. We would like to add for your consideration the information that we have had arms purchased by this party which were not paid for and that after a number of statements were sent, he came back with a hard luck story which resulted in our finally closing at an entire loss to ourselves and also with the resolution it would not occur again. In our opinion, an account of this man being so favorable to your principle competitor in the revolver line and exploiting their product as he, no doubt, has promised to exploit your own, we are quite sure that they had a similar experience to our own with him.

We have decided definitely to practically eliminate this man from our mailing list. We believe this information will at least be understood by you and it may prove to be of some value.

Very truly yours, Remington Arms Company, inc.

Geo. H. Garrison
Manager , Sales- Factory Division.

Stamped as "Received Jan 16, 1924, W.F.Roper. "


I also recall that some years ago when doing research in the Colt records for Gil Newton for his book "Colt New Service Revolvers" that similar concerns were expressed at Colt, regarding Mr. McGivern. So, any of you who have acquired any of McGivern's S&Ws over the years since his demise, please send them back to S&W, as they were probably never paid for, right ? Ed.

 

[GaryS]

I ever find myself in possession of one of these firearms I promise to pay the full advertised price at the time they were made.

 

[swsig]

It looks like McGivern was actually a McTakern.

 

[steveno]

so these days how many gun writers actually pay for all of the ammo they shoot during a gun test?

 

[krsmith58]

I ever find myself in possession of one of these firearms I promise to pay the full advertised price at the time they were made.

sounds right to me Brother , I'm with you . may even be a tip for such info . thanks , kenny , texas

 

[Absalom]

so these days how many gun writers actually pay for all of the ammo they shoot during a gun test?

Well, according to the biographical information available on Ed McGivern, in 1924, when this letter was written, he was far from being a gun writer; he was a poor sign painter living in an apartment in Lewistown where he had just moved and certainly wasn't famous or known. Later that year he did his first performance for a local crowd.

So he certainly wasn't anyone at that time a national company would ply with free guns and ammo because people wanted to read his sales-enhancing "tests" in magazines (or like nowadays blogs).

He was just a customer who shot a lot and stiffed his suppliers

 

[steveno]

so do you think that Rob Leatham and Jerry Miculek pay for their guns and ammo?

I think that supplying them guns and ammo would be pretty good for advertising.

 

[Goldstar225]

Just my opinion but I see a big difference between refusal to pay for a product and being given a product free of charge.

 

[old bear]

so do you think that Rob Leatham and Jerry Miculek pay for their guns and ammo?

I think that supplying them guns and ammo would be pretty good for advertising.

I don't think that either of the above pay for factory guns or ammo. The difference is the suppliers DON'T expect to be paid.

 

[Dave.357]

I don't think that either of the above pay for factory guns or ammo. The difference is the suppliers DON'T expect to be paid.

I know what you mean.I
Shot all my brother's
.22 ammo when we
Were kids, if he would
Of wanted paid he
Would of sent me a
Bill.

 

[moosedog]

Interesting post Ed. The story behind the story.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

IIRC he had a wealthy Philadelphian as a benefactor as well.

 

[DumpStick]

Very interesting story.

I have found that a great many humans, idolised for one trait or skill, could often be imprisoned for their other behaviors.

 

[Absalom]

IIRC he had a wealthy Philadelphian as a benefactor as well.

That was Walter Groff. The McGivern guns in the NRA collection come from his estate.

But I think they didn't get together until McGivern had attained some fame with his exhibition of skills.

As I said above, I think the year 1924, early in McGivern's time of fame, is the key for the kerfuffle over non-payments.

People have a tendency to look at a famous person's entire life with the hindsight of their eventual significance. I always notice this when Patton's Registered Magnum is discussed, and folks intimate in a worshipful tone what an honor and marketing boost it must have been for S&W that Patton ordered one of their RMs. No, it wasn't. In 1935 Patton was a Lt. Col. on staff duty in Hawaii who wasn't famous and whom very few people would have heard of yet.

 

[REM 3200]

People have a tendency to look at a famous person's entire life with the hindsight of their eventual significance. I always notice this when Patton's Registered Magnum is discussed, and folks intimate in a worshipful tone what an honor and marketing boost it must have been for S&W that Patton ordered one of their RMs. No, it wasn't. In 1935 Patton was a Lt. Col. on staff duty in Hawaii who wasn't famous and whom very few people would have heard of yet.

Patton was well established as an future leader by 1935. See the referenced article on his life. George S. Patton - Wikipedia

 

[UncleEd]

I've sent many, many requests to Smith & Wesson
and Remington for guns and ammo.

As I explained, I need the guns and the ammo to
become famous with their products and thus help
their sales.

But the klunk heads just don't see what opportunity
looks like when it knocks on their respective doors.

 

[LostintheOzone]

Patton was an officer with Gen Pershing in the pursuit of Pancho Villa. (MX 1916). He had some notable encounters with Villas troops and actually shot a few.

I wouldn't sell the guy short. He was wounded in WW1 combat and had a distinguished military career before WW2. I think a few people knew who he was before Ardennes but that made him a famous.

 

[DumpStick]

And, Patton was an Olympic athlete.
1912 Olympics, Pentathlon competitor.

 

[Jessie]

He wore a hell of a hat. Did he pay for that?

 

[Absalom]

Patton was well established as an future leader by 1935.

Patton was an officer with Gen Pershing in the pursuit of Pancho Villa.....

I wouldn't sell the guy short. He was wounded in WW1 combat and had a distinguished military career before WW2. .

And, Patton was an Olympic athlete.
1912 Olympics, Pentathlon competitor.

Yes, yes, I'm not selling the guy short or trying to diminish his distinguished career.

But that doesn't change, in fact it confirms my point that you all look at him through the prism of his post-1945 fame.

The peacetime US Army in the 1920s and 1930s suffered from the severe popular backlash against US involvement in WW I, was underfunded and understaffed and was a career backwater. Patton was an officer of middling rank in an army whose biggest accomplishment in the 1930s was organizing the CCC camps for the New Deal.

Regardless of Patton's individual accomplishments, of which I'm quite aware, he was by no means the kind of well-known personality or celebrity that would have interested the marketing department in courting him in 1935. Obviously, Ed McGivern had the same issue in 1924.