Psychological Stops are grossly underrated.

[BC38]

Uh...they kinda do that stuff all the time. First to the phone, and all that.

...and that is where YOU need to be first to the phone. Like dialing 911 as soon as they disengage.

As I said before, I'd much rather need to defend why I had to threaten to shoot someone than need to defend why I had to actually shoot them.

 

[Wise_A]

The first two paragraphs of your post make it sound an awful lot like you're, well, dismissing the idea of a would-be criminal or troublemaker calling the police to report that you waved a gun at them.

 

[BC38]

The first two paragraphs of your post make it sound an awful lot like you're, well, dismissing the idea of a would-be criminal or troublemaker calling the police to report that you waved a gun at them.

Then I gave a mistaken impression. I'm sure it happens. But I'd also be willing to bet it is even more rare than actual SD shootings.

As per the statistics cited earlier of the estimated half million DGUs a year, only something like 7% of them actually end up with the gun being discharged and the other 93% of the time just presenting the weapon ends the attack.

That's up to 465 thousand times a year. If it were common for those assailants scared off by the presentation of a weapon to contact police and report the defender for "brandishing" there would be tens of thousands of instances per year. If even 1% of them chose that route it would be over 46 thousand such cases a year.

You can bet your bottom dollar that the MSM would be making a big deal of it if there were tens of thousands of those kinds of cases. After all, people being charged with "brandishing" and threatening others with a gun fits their anti-gun agenda.

I'm not seeing those headlines. So while I'm sure it does happen, I'm equally sure it is pretty rare. Most criminals don't want any contact with an LEO if they can avoid it.

 

[JDinAZ]

Headshots with a 45 end situations.

If you draw you fire. It ain't a toy to waive around trying to spook your aggressor.

Period

 

[Smoke]

Headshots with a 45 end situations.

If you draw you fire. It ain't a toy to waive around trying to spook your aggressor.

Period

No period.

You certainly shouldn't draw without the intent to fire but if they back down before your sights are on target you need to be able to stop

 

[JDinAZ]

No period.

You certainly shouldn't draw without the intent to fire but if they back down before your sights are on target you need to be able to stop

Sights. Who uses sights in self defense at CCW distance. 21 feet is draw/clear holster/roll wrist/fire. Never gets into a sight usable position. 3 extra feet of movement is a waste of time in a life and death situation.

Side note on that for all skeptics. Go find a cowboy action guy and play showdown with him. You'll never get halfway to your sights before he peels a round of 45LC off and ends the situation.

 

[Smoke]

Sights. Who uses sights in self defense at CCW distance. 21 feet is draw/clear holster/roll wrist/fire. Never gets into a sight usable position. 3 extra feet of movement is a waste of time in a life and death situation.

Side note on that for all skeptics. Go find a cowboy action guy and play showdown with him. You'll never get halfway to your sights before he peels a round of 45LC off and ends the situation.

Interesting, Every. Single. Time I've ever had to draw on someone I distinctly remember focusing on the sights.

 

[JDinAZ]

Interesting, Every. Single. Time I've ever had to draw on someone I distinctly remember focusing on the sights.

My methods are different than most. Based on the old west days. When they rode the desert back then it was life and death so they figured out how to survive every time. A bobcat or pissed off rattle snake is just as much a problem as a two legged varmint. All three are fast as hell when they are damn near in your lap by the time you see it coming. Draw/clear/ discharge in shortest time/distance possible.

Fast and trained for the soft spot "head shots". They can't wear body armor on their head.

Remember I am in AZ not one of the Communist States. we have one hell of alot of degenerates on the street in certain areas. They can be creative to say the least.

 

[ParadiseRoad]

...Psychological Stop...aka a Retreat...

...you gotta be a Devil Dog...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W4B06sXfyI[/ame]

 

[Smoke]

My methods are different than most. Based on the old west days. When they rode the desert back then it was life and death so they figured out how to survive every time. A bobcat or pissed off rattle snake is just as much a problem as a two legged varmint. All three are fast as hell when they are damn near in your lap by the time you see it coming. Draw/clear/ discharge in shortest time/distance possible.

Fast and trained for the soft spot "head shots". They can't wear body armor on their head.

Remember I am in AZ not one of the Communist States. we have one hell of alot of degenerates on the street in certain areas. They can be creative to say the least.

Speaking of dumpster fires.....

Don't know if you've noticed but the "old west days" are over. Have been for a long time.

Being from Arizona, perhaps you've heard of Wyatt Earp? He was a staunch advocate of taking your time and using your sights. Even back in the "old west days".

Yippee Kai Yai Ay

 

[JDinAZ]

Well that's different for cops. They are supposedly allowed to brandish to INTIMIDATE.

Citizens are not authorized to brandish to intimidate. We must FIRE if we draw to be justified.

The old west still lives. We live it everyday in AZ. Folks still have horses at the house and all that good stuff. Just because it's dead in your town doesn't mean much to us out here

Just because some embrace the modern metropolitan society does not mean we all do.

 

[Wise_A]

Hilarious.

 

[Ziggy2525]

...
Citizens are not authorized to brandish to intimidate. We must FIRE if we draw to be justified.
...

I was thinking in Arizona you were allowed a defensive presentation of a pistol to stop a threat. Not just case law, but called out in the statutes. But, I might be wrong.

I agree with Smoke's post above. If you draw your weapon, it should be with the intent to shoot, but that doesn't mean you have to shoot. You could draw your pistol and the BG could either throw his hands up to surrender or run off. If you shot the BG under those circumstances, I'm thinking you'd be in some deep excrement.

 

[JDinAZ]

I was thinking in Arizona you were allowed a defensive presentation of a pistol to stop a threat. Not just case law, but called out in the statutes. But, I might be wrong.

I agree with Smoke's post above. If you draw your weapon, it should be with the intent to shoot, but that doesn't mean you have to shoot. You could draw your pistol and the BG could either throw his hands up to surrender or run off. If you shot the BG under those circumstances, I'm thinking you'd be in some deep excrement.

There's a brandishing statute. That will create a massive grey area legal battle for anyone that tries to use that as a defense. Thus I state it as brandishing is not authorized in my defense course. All brandishing does is allows the other person to shoot at you. Let that sink in a minute.

Straight up if you have time to think and asses between the time you draw and you fire then you were NOT in a life and death 21 foot or less situation that justified drawing your side arm. That said... I don't care how damn far away they are if they are pointing a gun in my direction they are a threat. Which is where I'd agree with the Earp sight use noted above.

 

[rwsmith]

Been thinking about this.....

The gun is a last resort and when it's pulled, it's going to be fired. But if you aren't in your home and the perp hauls tail and no damage or harm has been done, that's a good thing to me.

 

[Smoke]

There's a brandishing statute. That will create a massive grey area legal battle for anyone that tries to use that as a defense. Thus I state it as brandishing is not authorized in my defense course. All brandishing does is allows the other person to shoot at you. Let that sink in a minute.

Straight up if you have time to think and asses between the time you draw and you fire then you were NOT in a life and death 21 foot or less situation that justified drawing your side arm. That said... I don't care how damn far away they are if they are pointing a gun in my direction they are a threat. Which is where I'd agree with the Earp sight use noted above.

Why does the word dumpster fire keep going through my mind?

With all due respect you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You need to put down your gun and you need to actually learn what Arizona law says for you pick it back up.

This is taken DIRECTLY from the Arizona Revised Code.

13-421. Justification; defensive display of a firearm; definition

A. The defensive display of a firearm by a person against another is justified when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.

B. This section does not apply to a person who:

1. Intentionally provokes another person to use or attempt to use unlawful physical force.

2. Uses a firearm during the commission of a serious offense as defined in section 13-706 or violent crime as defined in section 13-901.03.

C. This section does not require the defensive display of a firearm before the use of physical force or the threat of physical force by a person who is otherwise justified in the use or threatened use of physical force.

D. For the purposes of this section, "defensive display of a firearm" includes:

1. Verbally informing another person that the person possesses or has available a firearm.

2. Exposing or displaying a firearm in a manner that a reasonable person would understand was meant to protect the person against another's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.

3. Placing the person's hand on a firearm while the firearm is contained in a pocket, purse or other means of containment or transport.

 

 

[JDinAZ]

Why does the word dumpster fire keep going through my mind?

With all due respect you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You need to put down your gun and you need to actually learn what Arizona law says for you pick it back up.

This is taken DIRECTLY from the Arizona Revised Code.

13-421. Justification; defensive display of a firearm; definition

A. The defensive display of a firearm by a person against another is justified when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.

B. This section does not apply to a person who:

1. Intentionally provokes another person to use or attempt to use unlawful physical force.

2. Uses a firearm during the commission of a serious offense as defined in section 13-706 or violent crime as defined in section 13-901.03.

C. This section does not require the defensive display of a firearm before the use of physical force or the threat of physical force by a person who is otherwise justified in the use or threatened use of physical force.

D. For the purposes of this section, "defensive display of a firearm" includes:

1. Verbally informing another person that the person possesses or has available a firearm.

2. Exposing or displaying a firearm in a manner that a reasonable person would understand was meant to protect the person against another's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.

3. Placing the person's hand on a firearm while the firearm is contained in a pocket, purse or other means of containment or transport.

 

I know the law. It's basic.

Arizona law says you point a gun at me I am cleared to drop you on the spot. Do I look forward to that. Hell no. Rather not deal with the whole mess. Fortunately I am not the victim type so I don't wind up into situations with aggressors.

Sounds like you need to learn true self defense. Not the brandishing to scare people. Your advice will get someone killed. Might as well carry a gun you whittled out of a bar of soap.

Why would you advocate pointing a gun at anyone to threaten them. When that opens up the ability of their opposition to shoot at will.

You might want to stay in Colorado or move to Kaliforniastan. Point a gun at a man in AZ and life gets very real very fast.

 

[ContinentalOp]

 

[Wise_A]

Thus I state it as brandishing is not authorized in my defense course.

Wait. You're claiming you teach people? For money?

Look upon what ye have wrought. This dude is in your forum, posting stuff.

 

[Smoke]

Wait. You're claiming you teach people? For money?

Look upon what ye have wrought. This dude is in your forum, posting stuff.

He's a Troll. He's got to be. There's no way that somebody could actually be that ignorant of the Law