Is the Model 41.........

M29since14 said:
I’ve had older Model 41s for years and used to shoot them regularly with two friends who used newer model 41s. I don’t recall ever having a malfunction with my old 41s (that couldn’t be properly blamed on ammunition) and don’t recall my friends complaining of function problems with their newer guns. I’m really at a loss to understand your difficulties, but it doesn’t sound like they are either ammunition- or shooter-induced. One gun might be a lemon, but two in a row makes one scratch his head. :rolleyes:

The 41’s match-quality reputation is well deserved, but I don’t doubt that there are easier pistols to shoot, notably the old High Standards. The issue seems to be that a lot of shooters find the 41 trigger difficult to manage. Other than that, I have never heard much in the way of consistent complaints about functioning. I’ve heard there used to be a few smiths who were skilled at tuning 41 triggers, though I’ve never bothered the send one of my guns out for the work. But, there’s never been any doubt in my mind that 41s were/are very capable guns. Hope S&W will get your problems squared away and gets you a pistol that works as well as mine have.
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Thank you. That's were I'm hoping to get. If I live long enough.

"...., but two in a row makes one scratch his head." I guess have a dry scalp 'cause I'm still scratchin'. :)
 
I think the only thing that all 41s have in common is that individual specimens have nothing in common. Every one I've ever seen has been a law unto itself regarding ammunition preference and little tweaks that might be needed to get it to run. I've had mine for 40+ years and I got lucky - it seems to shoot just about anything well and runs fine as long as I'm good about keeping it clean, especially around the breech.

While the 41 is unquestionably a fine firearm, the mantra that it's the finest .22 pistol ever built is really a bit of hyperbole. After many years of Bullseye competition with mine I upgraded to a Walther GSP Expert and there's honestly no comparison. The European target pistols (Walther, Pardini, Hammerli, et al.) are in a different league entirely, but of course also come to market at a price approximately double that of the 41, and I suspect that if S&W wanted to design a gun that would compete with them at that price point it could do so.
 
FlyFish said:
I think the only thing that all 41s have in common is that individual specimens have nothing in common. Every one I've ever seen has been a law unto itself regarding ammunition preference and little tweaks that might be needed to get it to run. I've had mine for 40+ years and I got lucky - it seems to shoot just about anything well and runs fine as long as I'm good about keeping it clean, especially around the breech.

While the 41 is unquestionably a fine firearm, the mantra that it's the finest .22 pistol ever built is really a bit of hyperbole. After many years of Bullseye competition with mine I upgraded to a Walther GSP Expert and there's honestly no comparison. The European target pistols (Walther, Pardini, Hammerli, et al.) are in a different league entirely, but of course also come to market at a price approximately double that of the 41, and I suspect that if S&W wanted to design a gun that would compete with them at that price point it could do so.
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"I've had mine for 40+ years....." At 76 I don't think I'll have it quite that long. If I do, I'm sure I won't have a good sight picture. :D Jim
 
FlyFish said:
...I suspect that if S&W wanted to design a gun that would compete with them at that price point it could do so.
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I suspect so too, but they’d probably not sell too many. Pricewise and in function, the 41 has always bridged the gap nicely between cheaper, less capable guns and the high-dollar European models.

I have no idea what a 41 trigger job cost/costs, but if the trigger were improved just a bit, I’m sure I couldn’t shoot any other gun any better. It’s not “bad” as it is - just not “easy.” :)

I agree 1000% with your comment about keeping the breech area clean, and particularly the extractor, it’s channel, and spring, as well.
 
My mid-60’s 41 shoots the CCI SV with out any problems. My cataract surgery’s were a great improvement on see the sights. I also have a 5 1/2” barrel with a Ultra Dot that is awesome.
 
When I read this thread and any other thread regarding problems on a Model 41, I see many inconsistencies with what is spoken not he forum and the printed documentation written by Smith&Wesson. We all need to be careful that the information we give is correct.

For example, we read on the forum only CCI Standard Velocity should be used so the Mod 41 is not beat. We read the Model 41 was designed only for CCI or other standard velocity ammo. And many other campfire tails. This not true, its not what Smith & Wesson says.

I own a new PC Mod 41. From the first day its only been given CCI Mini Mags and I have never had one type of problem whatsoever. It always goes BANG. I have in front of me the Smith & Wesson Owners manual for the Model 41. The reference number on the back page is
Rev:Mod41_101012. In the section of Ammunition it states use .22 Long Rifle of any type. Stamped on the barrel of my Mod 41 is .22 Long Rifle. The owners manual cautions to only use ammunition that meets SAAMI specs. The owners manual does go on to caution that some .22 ammunition has variations in primmer sensitivity varies between brands and types. Smith and Wesson recommends trying different brands/types to determine reliability of ignition. If failure to fire occurs, try other brands of ammunition. Use what shoots good in your Mod 41, and that well may be CCI Standard Velocity. Read your own owners manual or request one from S&W.

There we are, right from the mother ship, you can use ANY .22 long Rifle that meets SAAMI Specs *period* No gun will be destroyed or damaged. I concede its possible these error filled rumors may have been true on early Model 41’s, but not on new ones. What we need to know from the mother ship is; Has .22 LR SAAMI always been approved from Model 41 conception to present. Or we need to know where the change to any .22 long rifle SAMMI occurred, The serial number change point or year date. Then we can put to bed rumors and give valid info.

Model 52 (putting on my Nomex Underware
 
murphydog said:
Sorry for your troubles. Given your description it is unlikely to be an ammo problem, but next time you get it back from the factory I'd try other brands of standard velocity .22 just to be sure. Model 41s are "supposed" to like CCI SV but maybe yours doesn't. Please let us know what happens.
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My 1990 M41 was at best *meh* with CCI SV and this was the 'old stuff' before the ammo shortage and before CCI's quality control went in the toilet. Now, it seems it's not much better than bulk, a lot from too much wax lube on the projectile and gunking up the chamber. I was using the old 'black bullet' in the 50rnd boxes and function was fine, but performance was just meh.

Then, a fellow 41 shooter told me to try the Wolf MT, made by SK and it made all the difference. That 41 really started to sing, both with better accuracy and smoother function. Bought 2 cases of the Wolf and never looked back. This was in 2002 or so. In hindsight, I believe that besides the better QC at SK (German manufacturing, ya know), I believe that the 'greasy kid stuff' lube they used just worked better in the tight tolerances of the M41 than the dry wax lube that CCI and most american manufactors use. All my .22s run better using it. When it runs out, I'll be getting the SK Standard Plus since that's what it was, in a different box, but the ctgs had the SK headstamp. The new Wolf made by Eley I've no experience with and cant comment on.

That *could* be one solution.

Other solutions that could hold promise are:
Running a brick of CCI high velocity through the pistol to burnish and wear in moving parts. Something like Mini Mags, but NOT the hyper velocity stuff.
Polishing the chamber and/or the feed ramp. Sometimes, these might still be rough from the factory. Close inspection with a bright light will help here. Chambers are tight enough as it is and the slightest roughness can really screw you up.

HTH, some.

Rob
 
Back in my youth I shot bullseye in a league. I had High Standards and Rugers at various times, until I bought a 41. I would guess that it was made in the '60's or 70's, but its long gone so I can't check the serial number.

In any event, all the guys in my club shot standard velocity whatever, but my 41 didn't like them. When I switched to CCI Mini Mags it ran 100% and the accuracy was awesome.

In the early 90's I stopped competing because of kids, work schedule, etc. Ended up trading the 41 for a Blackhawk when I started handgun hunting.
 
My simple solution

Bought mine about 9/16 I had similar problems. I bought a set of Wolf recoil springs. I think 1lb lighter than stock fixed me up. Now the pistol is 100%.
 
Because of the constant feeding issues I sold my 41. IMO that gun is overrated and overpriced. I replaced it with a Ruger Mark lV for about a third of the 41's price. Couldn't be happier with the Ruger. It performs flawlessly.
 
There are VERY FEW Gun Company's left that produce quality the way we use to know it! S&W is certainly no exception and has (IMO) more than its share of QC issues!

The causes are complex, but IMO here are some major reasons:

*The Company has fallen prey to PC-ness.
*S&W has neglected the investment to PROPERLY train their "Gun-smiths".
*The work force pool lacks commitment to an employer.
*Final Inspection is horrific!
S&W is more concerned about $$ than quality. They would rather ship junk out the door and deal with it later than take the time trouble and effort to get it right the first time. It almost seems that PC guns are worse than their regular line! SAD!
*last but not least I blame the Company's CEO, President and Board of Directors for their dismal QC!!! At the end of the day - they are responsible!

I own more S&W's than any other brand - HOWEVER they are ALL vintage! UNFORTUNATELY (not bashing - just stating facts as I see them) they make nothing I'd actually spend my money on now. Apparently they now have a different Company model now-days. :(
 
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I agree with some of the Quality control being lax on their part. The Bottom line is all that seems to matter to most Corp's anymore. These are expensive handguns to own and the Value should be there at all times for what they are worth.
 
Model 52 said:
When I read this thread and any other thread regarding problems on a Model 41, I see many inconsistencies with what is spoken not he forum and the printed documentation written by Smith&Wesson. We all need to be careful that the information we give is correct.

For example, we read on the forum only CCI Standard Velocity should be used so the Mod 41 is not beat. We read the Model 41 was designed only for CCI or other standard velocity ammo. And many other campfire tails. This not true, its not what Smith & Wesson says.

I own a new PC Mod 41. From the first day its only been given CCI Mini Mags and I have never had one type of problem whatsoever. It always goes BANG. I have in front of me the Smith & Wesson Owners manual for the Model 41. The reference number on the back page is
Rev:Mod41_101012. In the section of Ammunition it states use .22 Long Rifle of any type. Stamped on the barrel of my Mod 41 is .22 Long Rifle. The owners manual cautions to only use ammunition that meets SAAMI specs. The owners manual does go on to caution that some .22 ammunition has variations in primmer sensitivity varies between brands and types. Smith and Wesson recommends trying different brands/types to determine reliability of ignition. If failure to fire occurs, try other brands of ammunition. Use what shoots good in your Mod 41, and that well may be CCI Standard Velocity. Read your own owners manual or request one from S&W.

There we are, right from the mother ship, you can use ANY .22 long Rifle that meets SAAMI Specs *period* No gun will be destroyed or damaged. I concede its possible these error filled rumors may have been true on early Model 41’s, but not on new ones. What we need to know from the mother ship is; Has .22 LR SAAMI always been approved from Model 41 conception to present. Or we need to know where the change to any .22 long rifle SAMMI occurred, The serial number change point or year date. Then we can put to bed rumors and give valid info.

Model 52 (putting on my Nomex Underware
Click to expand...


I can partially agree with the SV thing but I shoot that and wanted to shoot it before I made the purchase. That is why I called SW BEFORE I purchase to be sure it liked it. I don't what the sonic boom thing. After I shot the first one I had and the second, I called them again to explain. They assured me the gun was "..designed to CCI SV".

As for supersonic ammo, I tried it (four different brands including CCI Mini Mags) in the first and again with the second and they all malfunctioned the same. I did not try it with the return from the repair shop. I did call SW and again said that CCI SV should work.

I do feel for the price of the gun, it should eat just about anything as my others do that are 20 to 50 percent of the cost.
 
Other solutions that could hold promise are:
Running a brick of CCI high velocity through the pistol to burnish and wear in moving parts. Something like Mini Mags, but NOT the hyper velocity stuff.
Polishing the chamber and/or the feed ramp. Sometimes, these might still be rough from the factory. Close inspection with a bright light will help here. Chambers are tight enough as it is and the slightest roughness can really screw you up.

HTH, some.

Rob[/QUOTE]

I some how believe that "other solutions" are the reason I paid the price. The gun should be finely tuned and polished before it gets in the consumers hands.
 
kleiss1 said:
I agree with Wetdog. Run some hotter stuff to loosen it up a bit. Could just be the recoil spring is a little tight.
Click to expand...

In my letter to SW that I put in the return box(second time), I asked them to run a bunch of CCI SV through it and return it when it liked that that stuff.
 
Backlighting said:
Because of the constant feeding issues I sold my 41. IMO that gun is overrated and overpriced. I replaced it with a Ruger Mark lV for about a third of the 41's price. Couldn't be happier with the Ruger. It performs flawlessly.
Click to expand...

I do have a Ruger Mark IV. I like it but not as well as my Victory and "hopefully" not as much as I going to like the 41.:D
 
chief38 said:
There are VERY FEW Gun Company's left that produce quality the way we use to know it! S&W is certainly no exception and has (IMO) more than its share of QC issues!

The causes are complex, but IMO here are some major reasons:

*The Company has fallen prey to PC-ness.
*S&W has neglected the investment to PROPERLY train their "Gun-smiths".
*The work force pool lacks commitment to an employer.
*Final Inspection is horrific!
S&W is more concerned about $$ than quality. They would rather ship junk out the door and deal with it later than take the time trouble and effort to get it right the first time. It almost seems that PC guns are worse than their regular line! SAD!
*last but not least I blame the Company's CEO, President and Board of Directors for their dismal QC!!! At the end of the day - they are responsible!

I own more S&W's than any other brand - HOWEVER they are ALL vintage! UNFORTUNATELY (not bashing - just stating facts as I see them) they make nothing I'd actually spend my money on now. Apparently they now have a different Company model now-days. :(
Click to expand...

Sad but seemingly true. As I said in a previous post, in recent times I have sent three new guns back to the factory for repairs and they were all SW's. The good thing(yet) is that they are always cooperative.
 
Wolff Gunsprings sells a calibration recoil spring set for the gun. I'll bet with a lighter spring you can get the standard vels to run.
 
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