Is the Model 41.........

[Arman4461]

S&W model 41 quality

Blackemmons,
Your question is the reason I buy S&W’s built from 1975 to 1940. I have one model 41 left after years of owning six at one time. I sold off my others to allow me to have funds for experimenting with Colt, Pardini and Sig pistols. The model 41’s I have owned all had the same features, they worked and were accurate. The older the 41 is, the better the metal polish and bluing is. All of the 41’s made in the 1940’s thru late 50’s appeared to be hand assembled. I suspect the hand fitment stopped when the factory started using CNC machinery. My last model 41 is a 7&3/8” model with the muzzle break. It accepts old magazines as well as the latest mags with the cheaper plastic follower, and is perfectly reliable with all. It isn’t quite as accurate as the Pardini SP-22 I have, but at 25 and 50 yards, it has no problem keeping Wolf MT or Federal 711-B inside the 10-ring with 10 shots from a rest. With my love of older models evident, I helped a young gent that has a newer 41 with some of your problems. He showed up at the range with CCI SV. He had FTF and blamed the new mags. I let him try my old mags and he still had FTF. I handed him a mag of Wolf MT and a mag of Geco Semi-auto and had him pull the barrel and let me clean it and lube the slide rails with CLP oil. His next 10 rounds fired and functioned perfectly. His model 41 isn’t as pretty as my 1958 model, and my 2# trigger pull arrived before lawyers ruined the world, but his 41 is plenty accurate, and he enjoys it now. A good cleaning and trying out ten or more brands of ammo may be what gets you going. Light oiling of the rails and a couple of drops of oil on the recoil rod should be tried, before giving up. CCI SV is ok, but the ammo available to you has a lot of dimensions that vary. My Pardini won’t function with CCI SV, but delivers a ragged hole with Wolf MT as well as Federal 711-B. You won’t know till you try.
Good luck!
Arman

 

[blackemmons]

Blackemmons,
Your question is the reason I buy S&W’s built from 1975 to 1940. I have one model 41 left after years of owning six at one time. I sold off my others to allow me to have funds for experimenting with Colt, Pardini and Sig pistols. The model 41’s I have owned all had the same features, they worked and were accurate. The older the 41 is, the better the metal polish and bluing is. All of the 41’s made in the 1940’s thru late 50’s appeared to be hand assembled. I suspect the hand fitment stopped when the factory started using CNC machinery. My last model 41 is a 7&3/8” model with the muzzle break. It accepts old magazines as well as the latest mags with the cheaper plastic follower, and is perfectly reliable with all. It isn’t quite as accurate as the Pardini SP-22 I have, but at 25 and 50 yards, it has no problem keeping Wolf MT or Federal 711-B inside the 10-ring with 10 shots from a rest. With my love of older models evident, I helped a young gent that has a newer 41 with some of your problems. He showed up at the range with CCI SV. He had FTF and blamed the new mags. I let him try my old mags and he still had FTF. I handed him a mag of Wolf MT and a mag of Geco Semi-auto and had him pull the barrel and let me clean it and lube the slide rails with CLP oil. His next 10 rounds fired and functioned perfectly. His model 41 isn’t as pretty as my 1958 model, and my 2# trigger pull arrived before lawyers ruined the world, but his 41 is plenty accurate, and he enjoys it now. A good cleaning and trying out ten or more brands of ammo may be what gets you going. Light oiling of the rails and a couple of drops of oil on the recoil rod should be tried, before giving up. CCI SV is ok, but the ammo available to you has a lot of dimensions that vary. My Pardini won’t function with CCI SV, but delivers a ragged hole with Wolf MT as well as Federal 711-B. You won’t know till you try.
Good luck!
Arman

Arman, Thanks for the info and advise.

As ot today, just call, they haven't repaired it(the second time).

As previously stated, I called them before I got the first lemon to see what ammo I needed to purchase if I bought one. The answer was CCI SV is the "preferred ammo". OK with me so I started down this path. If I have to start purchasing a separate ammo at 3-4 times the price for the Model 41 it's going to be gone. I still am in disbelieve that a $1400 gun needs this much attention to make it go bang. All of my other 22lr pistols(14) from my 1952 Colt Match Target to my Taurus TX22 do not need this much attention and don't create this much disappointment. Are they all as accurate as the 41. probably not except for the old Colt.

At 76, SW has always had a great reputation with me. With my recent experience with my Shield, M&P 15-22 and two Model 41's this has changed dramatically. That being said, I believe you are correct and probably with most brands.... buy the old stuff. The new Colt Python would also fit in that category from what I have seen.

Thanks for the input.

 

[blackemmons]

............... to be continued. Due back today.

 

[Charlieo]

Problem S&W Model 41

I have an original my father bought in 1962. Build and ship date verified with Roy Jinks years back before he retired. Of course I shot it when I was a kid, now 70 and gun is immaculate as brand new. 7" barrel and target wood grips. I shoot it a few times each year just because it shoots like a dream and is a "tack driver". Have never had stove pipes, FTE or other malfunctions. Only rare FTF's then just rotated the cartridge and the fringing pin hit a different part on the rim and bang. So bad ammo. This is the best quality gun I own.

 

[blackemmons]

Well.................... that's over.

FedEx brought the Model 41 back today after the second trip to SW repair shop. I immediately jumped in the truck and headed to Bud's Guns and Range.

Loaded up three mags with CCI Standard Velocity and shot them. Loaded up three mags with CCI Mini Mag and shot them. Loaded up three mags with Remington Thunderbolt and shot them. That process took almost 30 minutes. Because........ the SAME issues plus a new one. The new one being that the next mags would not go in if the slide was held open on the last round(slide did not lock open all of the time). It would stick out of the mag well 3/8" and would not go any further.

Struggled through another nine magazines and finally gave up.

Back on the phone with SW and got their standard response. "We will email you a return authorization." No offer of a replacement or even mention of it. Told them to hold off on that and I would call them back if I needed it.

Went back to the FFL dealer(smga.com) where I purchased it and the first one I had. The manager was more understanding than SW. He gave me my money back.

No more SW's for me, unless it old.

 

[kleiss1]

Sorry to hear.

 

[blackemmons]

Thanks kleiss1. Such is life. SW and I are both happier now.

I am out about 500 rounds of ammo, trips to range, FFL and FedEx, a lot of time and had two months of agony. I really wanted that gun to work as advertised but..........

 

[blackemmons]

I have an original my father bought in 1962. Build and ship date verified with Roy Jinks years back before he retired. Of course I shot it when I was a kid, now 70 and gun is immaculate as brand new. 7" barrel and target wood grips. I shoot it a few times each year just because it shoots like a dream and is a "tack driver". Have never had stove pipes, FTE or other malfunctions. Only rare FTF's then just rotated the cartridge and the fringing pin hit a different part on the rim and bang. So bad ammo. This is the best quality gun I own.

That's the kind of gun I expected for $1,400. Like I alluded to, they just don't make 'um like they use to.

 

[rct269]

VOILA!!!

It sounds to me like I had the answer!

I had three Model 41's in My collection of S&W target arms---an early, regular, everyday version; one of those with the short, fat barrel with the extendable front sight, and a 41-1---one of the very last made. I never fired a single one of them, and they all worked out just fine!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[blackemmons]

It sounds to me like I had the answer!

I had three Model 41's in My collection of S&W target arms---an early, regular, everyday version; one of those with the short, fat barrel with the extendable front sight, and a 41-1---one of the very last made. I never fired a single one of them, and they all worked out just fine!

Ralph Tremaine

Thanks for the input. Lost a few bucks on that experience but I learned a couple of things also. I'll stick to Kel-Tec, Taurus and Hi Point.

 

[125JHP]

I had a M41 made in 1982, purchased the shorter 5" barrel as an accessory so I could set it up either long or short.

After shooting 15 different brands in a head to head accuracy test with it against my 1970 Colt match Target... I sold the M41 as I wasn't as accurate with it as with the Colt.
Can't recall if it malfunctioned with any particular ammo on a regular basis, just wasn't as good a grouper as the Colt (in my hand)- maybe it was the grip angle or maybe it was the gun, I don't know or care.

 

[blackemmons]

I had a M41 made in 1982, purchased the shorter 5" barrel as an accessory so I could set it up either long or short.

After shooting 15 different brands in a head to head accuracy test with it against my 1970 Colt match Target... I sold the M41 as I wasn't as accurate with it as with the Colt.
Can't recall if it malfunctioned with any particular ammo on a regular basis, just wasn't as good a grouper as the Colt (in my hand)- maybe it was the grip angle or maybe it was the gun, I don't know or care.

125JHP, How true about the Colt Match Target. I have 1954 Colt Match Target that was given to me new and it seems to be light years ahead of the new 41 I had. With one exception! That being field stripping the thing. The 41 is MUCH easier. Thanks.

 

[OIF2]

Sorry to hear about your M41 troubles...I've owned or been issued somewhere over a dozen and have a new PC 41 now that I'm working with. It shoots extremely well with Eley Tenex ammo; I intend to use it this season for bullseye. I like everything about the PC 41. I understand your frustration, though...I had free armory support if I had a problem (and I had a few).
Bob

 

[OLDSTER]

Because of the constant feeding issues I sold my 41. IMO that gun is overrated and overpriced. I replaced it with a Ruger Mark lV for about a third of the 41's price. Couldn't be happier with the Ruger. It performs flawlessly.

Ditto with me. Sold the 41 ten years ago. Bought a Ruger MKIII, added a few goodies; north of 15,000 rounds later of very accurate, and virtually trouble free performance.

 

[blackemmons]

Sorry to hear about your M41 troubles...I've owned or been issued somewhere over a dozen and have a new PC 41 now that I'm working with. It shoots extremely well with Eley Tenex ammo; I intend to use it this season for bullseye. I like everything about the PC 41. I understand your frustration, though...I had free armory support if I had a problem (and I had a few).
Bob

Thanks Bob. I really wanted that thing to work. But after two new lemons I was not dedicated to keep trying and not willing to spend .35/round to make(or try to make) it work. Just a bad experience for me. Third one with SW in recent years.

 

[MJK-MOD-547]

I just returned from a trip to the range with my M-41.

I fired about 200 rounds with no malfunctions. I fired three mags rapid fire in a row. Slide stayed open after every empty mag. I was shooting Rem Thunderbolts.

Since polishing the 2 different sized holes for the firing pin and the hole for the ejector I have been able to shoot the most inexpensive ammo with no problems.

$14.99 for 500 rounds.

 

[blackemmons]

I just returned from a trip to the range with my M-41.

I fired about 200 rounds with no malfunctions. I fired three mags rapid fire in a row. Slide stayed open after every empty mag. I was shooting Rem Thunderbolts.

Since polishing the 2 different sized holes for the firing pin and the hole for the ejector I have been able to shoot the most inexpensive ammo with no problems.

$14.99 for 500 rounds.

I'm glad to see you have a good one. When was it manufactured?

I shot Thunderbolt is both of them that I had. It wasn't any worse(or better), except for a little more smoke, than CCI stuff. How about CCI Standard Velosity? Thanks.

 

[M29since14]

Geesh! I’m nearly stunned. I just don’t know of anyone who ever had serious problems with a 41. Lots of guys aren’t wild about the trigger, but other than that - nothing! I’m sure sorry to hear of your troubles. As you say, for a $1400 target pistol, expecting it to run properly without any customer-applied tuning/fiddling is not asking too much. You are wise to move on. Enough is enough.

BTW, has nothing to do with your situation but it might interest you to know all new ones are not that way. I have a friend with a 7-inch standard-model 41 that is probably two months old, maybe three. His gun works fine and he’s very happy with it. I’ve seen it, but not fired it. Looks good to me.

PS... nearly everyone I know uses CCI SV when we can get it.

 

[blackemmons]

Geesh! I’m nearly stunned. I just don’t know of anyone who ever had serious problems with a 41. Lots of guys aren’t wild about the trigger, but other than that - nothing! I’m sure sorry to hear of your troubles. As you say, for a $1400 target pistol, expecting it to run properly without any customer-applied tuning/fiddling is not asking too much. You are wise to move on. Enough is enough.

BTW, has nothing to do with your situation but it might interest you to know all new ones are not that way. I have a friend with a 7-inch standard-model 41 that is probably two months old, maybe three. His gun works fine and he’s very happy with it. I’ve seen it, but not fired it. Looks good to me.

PS... nearly everyone I know uses CCI SV when we can get it.

Thanks M29since14

I'm sure they do make some "good" ones but I had two new ones and two trips to SW repair shop. Maybe I just give up too easily.

I would have thought that after the second trip to repair with the second gun and more issues than when I started they would have offered a replacement but....................... no.

I know it wasn't just my imagination because I had worker at Bud's Guns Shop try it to verify it wasn't just me. When I took it back to the FFL where I purchased it they couldn't get the mags to go in either. They didn't have to shoot it to see it was bad. Such is life.

 

[MJK-MOD-547]

I'm glad to see you have a good one. When was it manufactured?

I shot Thunderbolt is both of them that I had. It wasn't any worse(or better), except for a little more smoke, than CCI stuff. How about CCI Standard Velosity? Thanks.

Yes this will shoot CCI standard but it's more expensive to shoot.
Mine was manufactured in 1982. I removed the bolt for the first time and compared it with an NOS one because the nos bolt holes were gritty. Whether this is by design to catch carbon I don't know.

I have drilled holes like that after discovering I used the wrong speed on the mill or drill press or a bit that needed resharpened.

I used pin gauges to check the hole sizes on both bolts.
They only varied .001 but the holes were slightly scored on both.
The spring for the ejector did not move smooth in either bolt when the pin was moved.
So I ran reamers that were .001 larger than what the pin gauges indicated to polish the scratches without enlarging the holes.
When tested it felt smooth without the gritty feel.

One bad apple can make the whole barrel SMELL.