.45acp +P looking for load data

[Rogeronimo]

Back during the powder shortages I was forced to try new powders and discovered Silhouette -good stuff. I also used Longshot, but it is just a tad too slow unless you're serious about +p and above.
I always found HS6 to be a little too flashy, Silhouette is much less so.

Love Silhouette for 230 gn., Longshot for 250 gn.!

 

[colt_saa]

Back during the powder shortages I was forced to try new powders and discovered Silhouette -good stuff.

Silhouette used to go by the name of WAP from Winchester

WAP was the GoTo powder for the 9x23 Winchester cartridge. I used to go through lots of WAP

It has also been used for other 9MM Major power factor cartridges,

 

[4barrel]

Would a 460 Rowland drop in 1911 barrel kit from Clark Custom be a 45+p? The bullet is .45 and they use the same magazine.

 

[colt_saa]

Would a 460 Rowland drop in 1911 barrel kit from Clark Custom be a 45+p? The bullet is .45 and they use the same magazine.

That drop in the barrel kit also has a compensator on the front of it. You would be making that particular firearm an inch or so longer

The pressures of the 460 Rowland are well in excess of the 45ACP/45ACP+P

Even though the cartridge overall length allows it to be used in 45ACP magazines, the 460 Rowland is a longer cartridge case.

So if you fired a 45ACP+P in there, handling the pressure will be no big deal, but you would be headspacing on the extractor instead of having the case mouth against the end of the chamber. So you do run the risk of a light strike on the primer

 

[gen3guy]

I'd skip +P in .45 ACP. More pressure, slide goes faster, more gun wear for zero measurable gain. Little margin for error. Stick with John Moses Browning's specs and you can't go wrong.

What this guy said.

 

[4barrel]

That drop in the barrel kit also has a compensator on the front of it. You would be making that particular firearm an inch or so longer

The pressures of the 460 Rowland are well in excess of the 45ACP/45ACP+P

Even though the cartridge overall length allows it to be used in 45ACP magazines, the 460 Rowland is a longer cartridge case.

So if you fired a 45ACP+P in there, handling the pressure will be no big deal, but you would be headspacing on the extractor instead of having the case mouth against the end of the chamber. So you do run the risk of a light strike on the primer

The brass is 1/8 longer so it will not fit in a standard 45acp but you seat the bullet the same as standard 45acp. I have a comp barrel in the pile if needed and was thinking you could make the chamber 1/8 deeper <Not sure how Clark does that-his kit is $400>-- and use the 460 brass to safely make a 1100 fps 45 acp+p load that wont fit another gun. I have the stuff but don't care about +p loads. All I care about is what it takes to make the tightest 10 shot group.

 

[308 Scout]

I'd skip +P in .45 ACP. More pressure, slide goes faster, more gun wear for zero measurable gain. Little margin for error. Stick with John Moses Browning's specs and you can't go wrong.

Hmm....what about those same pistols chambered in 9mm and 38 Super? About 50% higher pressures than 45 ACP +P, and talk about the slide going faster!

 

[Univibe]

Hmm....what about those same pistols chambered in 9mm and 38 Super? About 50% higher pressures than 45 ACP +P, and talk about the slide going faster!

Okay, but there are several differences.

1. The bullet on the 9s is much lighter than that of the .45. About half the weight, means much less recoil impulse.

2. The chamber and barrel are the same external dimensions of the .45, so that means the walls are much thicker and will handle much higher pressures.

3. A useful comparison is the 1911 in .40. The .40 can be thought of as a type of .45 +P, since the bullet's only 50 grains different. There's a reason that Colt, Kimber et al dropped it not long after the introduction. It's too much mass and too much pressure for the 1911. Slide goes too fast and it can cause intractable problems. The design just won't handle it.

So the 1911 can handle 9mm +P and .38 super, but not (reliably) .40. I'd say the .45 +P is more like the .40 than it is the smaller calibers.

Again, I'd pass on .45 +P. You're asking Browning's gun to do something it wasn't designed to do.

 

[308 Scout]

Okay, but there are several differences.

1. The bullet on the 9s is much lighter than that of the .45. About half the weight, means much less recoil impulse.

2. The chamber and barrel are the same external dimensions of the .45, so that means the walls are much thicker and will handle much higher pressures.

3. A useful comparison is the 1911 in .40. The .40 can be thought of as a type of .45 +P, since the bullet's only 50 grains different. There's a reason that Colt, Kimber et al dropped it not long after the introduction. It's too much mass and too much pressure for the 1911. Slide goes too fast and it can cause intractable problems. The design just won't handle it.

So the 1911 can handle 9mm +P and .38 super, but not (reliably) .40. I'd say the .45 +P is more like the .40 than it is the smaller calibers.

Again, I'd pass on .45 +P. You're asking Browning's gun to do something it wasn't designed to do.

You forgot the 10mm, which both Colt and Kimber chamber. How is it the 40 S&W and 45 ACP +P too much for the 1911, but the 10mm isn't?

I mean if you have some sort of information, I'm all ears!

 

[dla]

Okay, but there are several differences.

1. The bullet on the 9s is much lighter than that of the .45. About half the weight, means much less recoil impulse.

2. The chamber and barrel are the same external dimensions of the .45, so that means the walls are much thicker and will handle much higher pressures.

3. A useful comparison is the 1911 in .40. The .40 can be thought of as a type of .45 +P, since the bullet's only 50 grains different. There's a reason that Colt, Kimber et al dropped it not long after the introduction. It's too much mass and too much pressure for the 1911. Slide goes too fast and it can cause intractable problems. The design just won't handle it.

So the 1911 can handle 9mm +P and .38 super, but not (reliably) .40. I'd say the .45 +P is more like the .40 than it is the smaller calibers.

Again, I'd pass on .45 +P. You're asking Browning's gun to do something it wasn't designed to do.

Pressure doesn't move the slide.
+p is no big deal - in fact I dont know why they bother with that silly 19Kpsi anymore.

I shoot +p constantly - 185gr @1100fps. If I wanted a bear load, I would have no qualms about a 230gr at 1000+fps. In fact, Ramshot used to publish a recipe using Enforcer that took a 230gr above 1000fps and stayed below +p.

 

[308 Scout]

Pressure doesn't move the slide.
+p is no big deal - in fact I dont know why they bother with that silly 19Kpsi anymore.

I shoot +p constantly - 185gr @1100fps. If I wanted a bear load, I would have no qualms about a 230gr at 1000+fps. In fact, Ramshot used to publish a recipe using Enforcer that took a 230gr above 1000fps and stayed below +p.

Almost 1,000 fps and just a smidge over standard pressure.

 

[Univibe]

You forgot the 10mm, which both Colt and Kimber chamber. How is it the 40 S&W and 45 ACP +P too much for the 1911, but the 10mm isn't?

I mean if you have some sort of information, I'm all ears!

I've shot the Springfield 1911 in 10mm. The frame is beefed up, the slide seems heavier than a govt 1911, and the recoil spring is much tougher. The chamber is fully supported. It's essentially a 1911 on weight training.

Similarly, the .40 Browning hi-power had a heavier slide and a much stiffer recoil spring.

By contrast, the Kimber and Colt 40's were merely 1911s chambered in .40.

I have shot and examined all these guns and their counterparts in original chambering.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

What this guy said.

I agree with what this guy said about what this guy said.

 

[Tex1001]

For my infrequent 45ACP +P 230gr loads I too load 45 Super cases. Longshot works well for loads for my modern revolver.
Silhouette (WAP) works well for 1911 and M&P loads, but I keep a very close watch on slide velocity.
I use Hornady web site data for both.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

If you're using Hodgdon's website's load data for Longshot & 45 ACP +P loads you have to go to the 45 Super section & then that's barely over standard 45 ACP pressure (18K CUP).

Their 230gr Longshot 45 SUPER load is 19.8K CUP, definitely not a true 45 SUPER load, but would qualify as 45 ACP (+P) if SAAMI defined one using CUP (only defined using PSI).

No need to use 45 SUPER brass for (+P) loads useless you have poorly supported chambers.

I shoot real 45 SUPER loads (45 ACP +P+) in several of my 3rd Gens, & revolvers as well as my Series 70 1911 set-up for these. No idea why (+P) would be too much for a 1911.

The OP never did tell us what he's loading for.

.

 

[reddog81]

Okay, but there are several differences.
...
3. A useful comparison is the 1911 in .40. The .40 can be thought of as a type of .45 +P, since the bullet's only 50 grains different. There's a reason that Colt, Kimber et al dropped it not long after the introduction. It's too much mass and too much pressure for the 1911. Slide goes too fast and it can cause intractable problems. The design just won't handle it.

So the 1911 can handle 9mm +P and .38 super, but not (reliably) .40. I'd say the .45 +P is more like the .40 than it is the smaller calibers.

Again, I'd pass on .45 +P. You're asking Browning's gun to do something it wasn't designed to do.

That's some of the craziest stuff I've heard in a while. The 45 ACP will push a 180 grain bullet to around 950 to 1000 FPS. A 40 S&W will push a 180 grain bullet to about 950 to 1000 FPS. Boutique ammo will push bullets faster for both rounds.

I have 6 1911s. The Colt Delta Elite is the lightweight of the bunch. I just weighed all of them and the DE weighs in at 2 lbs 3 ounces. All the others weigh more - from 2 lbs 4 ounces up to 2 lbs 7 ounces. Where is the slide and frame beefier on the 10MM? I'm not seeing it.

The Delta Elite does have a double recoil spring but that's more for marketing than anything else. The recoil springs main job is to load the next round from the magazine. The mainspring and firing pin stop have a much more pronounced effect on retarding the speed of the slide.

Sure +P will increase wear slightly, but you'll have spent many $1,000's on ammo before you'd ever see any difference in wear.

 

[papajohn428]

Interesting thread! I've experimented with the 460 Rowland in years past, still have a lot of the brass on hand, plus several assorted boxes of handloads. But my recent forays into the .452" family have led me to purchase another 625-3, as well as some Starline 45 Auto Rim brass for it. I've long heard that 45ACP power levels can be boosted safety in this modern gun, and as it happens, I also recently bought a Ruger Blackhawk Convertible in 45ACP/45 Long Colt, so I have two VERY strong platforms to experiment with when it comes to launching 45ACP boolits.

Anyone else experimented with hot 45 Auto Rim loads? I'm thinking with new brass I can safely approach 24-26,000 PSI loads, possibly even higher, in a pair of guns designed to take a lot more pressure than that.

What say the form folk? Any daredevils here? ;-)

 

[308 Scout]

Interesting thread! I've experimented with the 460 Rowland in years past, still have a lot of the brass on hand, plus several assorted boxes of handloads. But my recent forays into the .452" family have led me to purchase another 625-3, as well as some Starline 45 Auto Rim brass for it. I've long heard that 45ACP power levels can be boosted safety in this modern gun, and as it happens, I also recently bought a Ruger Blackhawk Convertible in 45ACP/45 Long Colt, so I have two VERY strong platforms to experiment with when it comes to launching 45ACP boolits.

Anyone else experimented with hot 45 Auto Rim loads? I'm thinking with new brass I can safely approach 24-26,000 PSI loads, possibly even higher, in a pair of guns designed to take a lot more pressure than that.

What say the form folk? Any daredevils here? ;-)

I'm not sure what you call "hot" but I do have one 45 AR load I use in my S&W 1917 that runs a 255 gr. cast SWC 925 fps.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Anyone else experimented with hot 45 Auto Rim loads?
I'm thinking with new brass I can safely approach 24-26,000 PSI loads, possibly even higher...

No problem uploading Starline 45 Auto Rim brass, they are plenty strong. I load them to 45 Super power without issues.

Starline website says "The .45 Auto Rim... It is built with the same integrity as our 45 Colt case."

Their 45 Colt brass is good to 44 Magnum pressure.

.

 

[Ray]

Just taking a ride here. Maybe it´s not advisable , but will a SW 1917 revolver safely digests a VERY limited diet of a 185 grain +P .45 ACP load without ill effects?
The brand is Magtech, ( here in Brazil CBC ) and the load is a +P with a 185 grain hollow point bullet.
I just saw it for sale around here in Rio de Janeiro and want to try it, but only if it´s safe.
Don´t want to push the old gal too much.
Thanks, regards, Ray