rufrdr
Member
Anyone experience a broken extractor with a 1006? Mine is fine and the extractor appears stout but if they do break I will look to obtain a back up part.
1006 Broken Extractor?
- Thread starter rufrdr
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The extractor is a hard-use part for sure and having a back up is a fine idea. That said, I have never had an extraction related issue on my 1006 and I've cared for it since new, it was purchased in the spring or summer of 1992. I wouldn't say that mine has a tremendously high round count, less than 5,000 rounds through it.
I can't say that I have read of anyone having 10xx pistol extractor troubles, it definitely is not a known weak point. Certainly, it is possible.
I can't say that I have read of anyone having 10xx pistol extractor troubles, it definitely is not a known weak point. Certainly, it is possible.
I'd say that the way extractors are most likely to be damaged is in dropping the slide on a round that is in the chamber. Rounds fed from the magazine will not damage the extractor, but dropping the slide on a chambered round hammers the front of the extractor.
Frank Black
Member
The real question is, should you need one, are NOS extractors for the 10XX-series even still available?
Possibly NOS extractors from the 45XX-series pistols may work in 10-series guns. They may even have the same S&W factory part number, although I'm not for sure on that.
It couldn't hurt to stock up on a spare if you can find it.
Possibly NOS extractors from the 45XX-series pistols may work in 10-series guns. They may even have the same S&W factory part number, although I'm not for sure on that.
It couldn't hurt to stock up on a spare if you can find it.
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JohnHL
Member
45 and 10mm extractors are different.
John
John
Rock185
US Veteran
I've had at least half a dozen S&W 10MMs since they were introduced. While anything can break, I never broke an extractor or anything else. But I like spare parts anyway.
The good news is that the same Bar block GO/NO-GO gauge is used to fit both .40 & 10 extractors in 3rd gen slides. (I was told that the factory used to have a machine shop contract vendor make the extractor Bar block gauges which they sold to armorers for field repair purpose.)
The bad news is that the extractors aren't considered 'drop-in' parts and the adjustment pads typically have to be filed down in order for the extractor to fit within the proper spec and function normally.
Over the years I've heard of factory people say that 3rd gen extractors usually experience "work hardening" over time and use, and that they might last anywhere from 10-25K rounds (just some numbers I've heard mentioned) before they may become brittle and start to chip or break.
Naturally, abusing an extractor hook, like letting a slide ram home over a round in the chamber (instead of feeding the round from a magazine) might damage the extractor hook or shorten its normal service life.
In addition to the extractor hook becoming damaged, the extractor spring might weaken over time and require replacement. While the extractor spring chart provided to armorers listed the 10 & .40 spring tension to be the same, with a range of 5-8lbs, different springs were used in the smaller .40 slides than in the 10(.45) slides.
The 9/.40 extractor springs had a different length and diameter than the larger .45/10 springs. Also, there used to be 3 different extractor springs available for the .45/10 slides, so an armorer could get the spring tension within spec in any particular slide. Standard, Heavier than Standard and Extra Heavy. In recent years when I requested some more spare .45 extractor springs (just to round out my parts kit), though, I only got 2 different ones. They didn't come with part numbers, either, so I presume I'd have to try each one to see which might put any particular slide's extractor within the recommended tension spec ... and also provided for normal functioning during live-fire (the final "test" after the bench tests were passed).
The spring tension is checked using one of the models of the Wagner Force Dial gauges that S&W used to sell to armorers. The cost was approx $150.
Then, there's the consideration that some guns may function better with an extractor tension that's at one or the other end of the normal tension range.
Or, sometimes depending on the tightness or looseness of the bar gauge fit when filing and checking an extractor in a particular gun. For example, some guns (like some .40's) might run with the extractor fitted "tightly blocked", meaning when the GO end of the Bar gauge fits very snugly, while other guns might run just fine when the GO end is a bit less tight (but not so loose that the NO-GO end fits, of course).
New extractors used to cost about $20 (retail), and the extractor springs about a buck. (Aftermarket extractor springs may not be "rated" for their tension the same way as the factory rated their springs, as I found out when discussing it with an aftermarket spring maker. The explanation offered was that different companies may use different equipment and measuring methods.)
The bad news is that the extractors aren't considered 'drop-in' parts and the adjustment pads typically have to be filed down in order for the extractor to fit within the proper spec and function normally.
Over the years I've heard of factory people say that 3rd gen extractors usually experience "work hardening" over time and use, and that they might last anywhere from 10-25K rounds (just some numbers I've heard mentioned) before they may become brittle and start to chip or break.
Naturally, abusing an extractor hook, like letting a slide ram home over a round in the chamber (instead of feeding the round from a magazine) might damage the extractor hook or shorten its normal service life.
In addition to the extractor hook becoming damaged, the extractor spring might weaken over time and require replacement. While the extractor spring chart provided to armorers listed the 10 & .40 spring tension to be the same, with a range of 5-8lbs, different springs were used in the smaller .40 slides than in the 10(.45) slides.
The 9/.40 extractor springs had a different length and diameter than the larger .45/10 springs. Also, there used to be 3 different extractor springs available for the .45/10 slides, so an armorer could get the spring tension within spec in any particular slide. Standard, Heavier than Standard and Extra Heavy. In recent years when I requested some more spare .45 extractor springs (just to round out my parts kit), though, I only got 2 different ones. They didn't come with part numbers, either, so I presume I'd have to try each one to see which might put any particular slide's extractor within the recommended tension spec ... and also provided for normal functioning during live-fire (the final "test" after the bench tests were passed).
The spring tension is checked using one of the models of the Wagner Force Dial gauges that S&W used to sell to armorers. The cost was approx $150.
Then, there's the consideration that some guns may function better with an extractor tension that's at one or the other end of the normal tension range.
Or, sometimes depending on the tightness or looseness of the bar gauge fit when filing and checking an extractor in a particular gun. For example, some guns (like some .40's) might run with the extractor fitted "tightly blocked", meaning when the GO end of the Bar gauge fits very snugly, while other guns might run just fine when the GO end is a bit less tight (but not so loose that the NO-GO end fits, of course).
New extractors used to cost about $20 (retail), and the extractor springs about a buck. (Aftermarket extractor springs may not be "rated" for their tension the same way as the factory rated their springs, as I found out when discussing it with an aftermarket spring maker. The explanation offered was that different companies may use different equipment and measuring methods.)
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OP
rufrdr
Member
The only extractors I've found on the web for sale are used ones on Ebay. S seller has a number of used 10mm extractors for sale. From what is being said the part is not a drop in item. Also, why would used extractors be for sale I wonder? Where did they come from?
Does anyone have a line on NOS extractors for sale?
This pistol came to me from my Dad in the late 90s and it was already a bit worn. I've probably put about 1k rounds through it, pretty much all reloads. A couple of years ago I replaced the extractor spring and recoil spring. On my last outing the piece started to fail to extract. I cleaned it well and am waiting to take it back out again to see what happens with it.
Does anyone have a line on NOS extractors for sale?
This pistol came to me from my Dad in the late 90s and it was already a bit worn. I've probably put about 1k rounds through it, pretty much all reloads. A couple of years ago I replaced the extractor spring and recoil spring. On my last outing the piece started to fail to extract. I cleaned it well and am waiting to take it back out again to see what happens with it.
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Not exactly a current line for sure but S&W had part #201600000 in stock when I had an occasion to inquire on 4/6/18.
It's not uncommon to see "used" S&W parts for sale. I remember being told about a company who wanted to buy used police guns to take them apart and sell the parts. When you look at some of the prices for some parts for discontinued guns, it's not a surprise that some LE turn-in guns might be worth a lot more when broken down and sold as parts than being sold as a complete gun.
Why did you replace the extractor spring? Was the gun exhibiting extraction problems? Did you replace it with a factory spring? (Did you remove the pin DOWN, from the top of the slide, and then reinstall it UP, from the bottom of the slide?)
Unless you happen to have a Wagner Force Dial gauge of the right model (with the correct hooked extension, to grab the extractor hook), and you know to measure the spring tension at the moment of extractor deflection (think seeing front or tail movement), you can't really know whether the tension is within the factory spec or not. If it's not, then you'd have to try an optional .45/10 extractor spring of a different tension.
If the tension is too heavy, you can get failures-to-feed. Too light and you can get failures-to-extract. Ditto if the hook is too tight (pad over-filed), or the hook is too loose (pad not filed enough), regardless of the spring.
Buying a "used" or "pre-owned" extractor (guessing what any seller might mean using those words) would probably mean that it's already been filed and fitted for the slide of a particular 10mm gun. The only way to know if it would might work in a different gun is to install it and check the fit using a factory GO/NO-GO BAR gauge in the different slide.
If the extractor's adjustment pad hadn't had to be filed very much to make it fit the previous slide, and there was enough metal left that would still have to be filed to make it fit properly in your slide ... you'd be lucky. If too much had already been removed? Out-of-luck.
One thing about the 3rd gen extractors is that they were pretty durable (as long as you didn't abuse them). It's not uncommon to hear owners/issued users and S&W trained armorers talk about how guns reliably extracted even when minor chipping of the hook might be visible. Of course, even though a chipped extractor might be offering normal function, it's still something that an armorer would normally replace in a duty weapon, since a chipped hook edge isn't within the original factory "spec".
Perhaps you might be able to find a gunsmith who has a stash of old 3rd gen parts, and who was familiar with repairing S&W pistols.
OP
rufrdr
Member
Thanks! I will give this a try. At this point I just want to have one available in case it is needed.
OP
rufrdr
Member
It's not uncommon to see "used" S&W parts for sale. I remember being told about a company who wanted to buy used police guns to take them apart and sell the parts. When you look at some of the prices for some parts for discontinued guns, it's not a surprise that some LE turn-in guns might be worth a lot more when broken down and sold as parts than being sold as a complete gun.
Why did you replace the extractor spring? Was the gun exhibiting extraction problems? Did you replace it with a factory spring? (Did you remove the pin DOWN, from the top of the slide, and then reinstall it UP, from the bottom of the slide?)
Unless you happen to have a Wagner Force Dial gauge of the right model (with the correct hooked extension, to grab the extractor hook), and you know to measure the spring tension at the moment of extractor deflection (think seeing front or tail movement), you can't really know whether the tension is within the factory spec or not. If it's not, then you'd have to try an optional .45/10 extractor spring of a different tension.
If the tension is too heavy, you can get failures-to-feed. Too light and you can get failures-to-extract. Ditto if the hook is too tight (pad over-filed), or the hook is too loose (pad not filed enough), regardless of the spring.
Buying a "used" or "pre-owned" extractor (guessing what any seller might mean using those words) would probably mean that it's already been filed and fitted for the slide of a particular 10mm gun. The only way to know if it would might work in a different gun is to install it and check the fit using a factory GO/NO-GO BAR gauge in the different slide.
If the extractor's adjustment pad hadn't had to be filed very much to make it fit the previous slide, and there was enough metal left that would still have to be filed to make it fit properly in your slide ... you'd be lucky. If too much had already been removed? Out-of-luck.
One thing about the 3rd gen extractors is that they were pretty durable (as long as you didn't abuse them). It's not uncommon to hear owners/issued users and S&W trained armorers talk about how guns reliably extracted even when minor chipping of the hook might be visible. Of course, even though a chipped extractor might be offering normal function, it's still something that an armorer would normally replace in a duty weapon, since a chipped hook edge isn't within the original factory "spec".
Perhaps you might be able to find a gunsmith who has a stash of old 3rd gen parts, and who was familiar with repairing S&W pistols.
The extractor spring was a Wolff. I replaced it because it was failing to extract fired cases. I did the install as described and had a couple of years of no issues until the last outing. I quit shooting when I had a failure to extract on just about every magazine.
I haven't taken it down again but looking at the extractor in the slide all looks normal, no sign of chipping or deformation. Maybe it was just an excessively dirty chamber? Anyway I will try calling the factory to see if the extractor is still available, if not I will follow the other suggestion and reach out to the forum member as mentioned in another post.
Thanks for your help and advice.
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OP
rufrdr
Member
Called S&W, they do not have the parts in stock, they are obsolete.
I will try the forum member BMCM as mentioned.
Thanks all.
I will try the forum member BMCM as mentioned.
Thanks all.
Or gunk in the extractor slot. I once bought a used, pilot version of the 4506 (early production 4506, marked as a 645) that failed to extract on a regular basis. The extractor slot was filled with gunk. Once cleaned, no more issues with extraction.
Frank Black
Member
Yep, my bad. Late last night I double-checked a 3rd Gen parts list and they are different #s.
Still, there's no downside to having a spare if the owner runs his 10XX gun hard with full power loads. It's what I'd consider a critical part.
OP
rufrdr
Member
Member BMCM put me on to a source for the extractor and spring which I have ordered. Thanks to everyone!
Veracity2371
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Would it be possible to go into greater detail on that?
I saw an extractor for sale that was purportedly for a 1006/1076 and it was marked "10". But I have a spare one that is not marked, even though it seems to be the same as the one installed in my 1076. I have not removed it to make a more detailed comparison. Is it possible to show how they differ with a photo?
