Lost a fine model 58 to the ATF today.

[Dvus]

So today I had to meet an ATF Special Agent to hand over a beautiful S serial numbered model 58 that I purchased a few months back at a local gun store. Apparently it was used in a cop on cop murder in Chicago back in 1966. It disappeared directly afterwards and was traced through a dealer to a man who "lost it in a lake while fishing" until it popped when I did my paperwork, 54 years later. Originally it belonged to a cop who came home and found his wife in bed with another cop. Now the chances of ever getting it back are over next to the frozen hell border. Now that I know the guns history, however tarnished, it just makes me want it back more. The gun store at least stepped up and refunded my money on a gift card.
It just goes to show, it doesn't matter where you buy your guns, you can still get one with a checkered past.

BTW... I DID remove the stocks before I turned it over to the agent.

 

[Sistema1927]

Didn't that case have its final disposition some time ago? If so, then why would the ATF (or anyone else for that matter) still be looking for it?

 

[jrm53]

I wonder what tipped them off to the fact that you had bought it, when I had a FFL the only way the ATF could get your records was if you quit and sent them to them, of if they were looking at your records to check up on somebody or got a gun and they ran the numbers and it came up that you had sold it, I would like to know the story but we never will. I know after thinking a bit that when they called to get the OK to sell they must have gave the serial number and that was the way they caught it. If you had a CCW they would not of had to be called for an OK. Jeff

 

[Absalom]

I wonder what tipped them off to the fact that you had bought it, when I had a FFL the only way the ATF could get your records was if you quit and sent them to them, of if they were looking at your records to check up on somebody or got a gun and they ran the numbers and it came up that you had sold it, I would like to know the story but we never will. I know after thinking a bit that when they called to get the OK to sell they must have gave the serial number and that was the way they caught it. If you had a CCW they would not of had to be called for an OK. Jeff

Depends on the state law where he resides and did the purchase. Some places, CCW or not has nothing to do with FFL transfers, and guns are always run through NCIC. I‘ve had a CCW in Oregon for 31 years now, and I‘ve had two transfers (both GB purchases from out of state) get hung up on theft reports.

 

[22hipower]

There must be a lot more to that story. Curious how it came to the attention of the ATF at this late date.

Some years ago I bought an older S&W revolver at a pawn shop and got a call a week or so later from the local police wanting me to bring it in. Apparently pawn shop inventory, in Texas anyway, is checked by local police and SNs are run against whatever database they have. This one popped as having been used in the shooting of a policeman in NY.

Turned out to be a mistake though as the shop had recorded the assembly number as the SN instead of the actual SN (pachmayer grips covered the butt). It was the assembly number which happened to match the NY gun's SN. Took me awhile to convince the local police that was the situation but ended up leaving with the gun. As far as I know the local police don't check LGS inventory but perhaps in some places they do?

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[bamabiker]

I would have gave it to him but not with those grips. It would be wearing some rubbers.

 

[LPD256]

I wish you would’ve sent me the grips. I would have traded you some crappy Magnas that came with mine.

 

[Rudi]

How did the ATF contact you? Where did you meet? A strange tale for sure.

 

[ParadiseRoad]

...I have a Colt Police Positive Special from 1919 with a couple of notches in the grips...

...always made me wonder...

 

[Bladeswitcher]

There must be a lot more to that story. Curious how it came to the attention of the ATF at this late date.

Some years ago I bought an older S&W revolver at a pawn shop and got a call a week or so later from the local police wanting me to bring it in. Apparently pawn shop inventory, in Texas anyway, is checked by local police and SNs are run against whatever database they have. This one popped as having been used in the shooting of a policeman in NY . . .

I had a pawnshop for eight years. In that time, I had three guns get flagged by the police. They found them because pawnshops in my state are required to report all their buys and pawns to database. That database gets checked against the hot list.

FWIW, the circumstances of my three hits were:

1.) A Ruger Security Six that I bought from my alarm company technician (straight arrow kind of guy). The gun had been reported stolen in another state back in the 1980s. The detective that contacted me did some more checking and discovered the victim had long since died and he had no information about heirs. He dropped the whole thing and removed the gun from the hot list.
2.) Bought a S&W 686 from a housewife type customer. After I sold the gun to a cop from a nearby town, the local cops contacted me and said the gun once belonged to one of their retired cops, who had reported it stolen. It turned out to be a mistake. The woman who sold me the gun was his widow. Apparently, the gun had been "found" at some point. They let it go and last I heard, the gun was cleared from the stolen list.
3.) Took a Marlin .30-30 in on trade from the ex-wife of a fellow pawnbroker in town. Cops said it was one of about a half dozen guns taken in a recent burglary. Turns out my pawnbroker friend bought a bunch of guns from a guy in a bar. Gave this one to his ex-old lady so she could trade it for a handgun. Cops took the gun and I was S.O.L. My "friend" said he would make it up to me, but never did. Eventually, his wife brought in some gold to sell and she asked 'whatever happened with that gun?" I told her that her ex stiffed me. She gave me the gold to square it all up (her idea). Everybody was cool after that. I think my friend rolled on the guy who sold him the guns and he got arrested. Never heard anything more than that.

 

[ggibson511960]

In the words of a famous government official, "After all these years, what difference does it make?" Common sense indicates the ATF wouldn't go the trouble of storing or destroying the firearm. Its very existence in private hands decades later adds nothing to the common good, unless the ATF wants to use every excuse to get every last firearm possible out of private hands, and I don't think that's true.

 

[Dieseltech56]

I can’t help but wonder what would be the purpose of retrieving a gun that was used in a crime 54 years ago. I’m sure the case has long since been closed. Will charges be brought against the guy who traded it in? If not this seems like a waste of taxpayer money

 

[Bladeswitcher]

I can’t help but wonder what would be the purpose of retrieving a gun that was used in a crime 54 years ago. I’m sure the case has long since been closed. Will charges be brought against the guy who traded it in? If not this seems like a waste of taxpayer money

This may sound like a stupid question, but what business is it of the ATF's? What federal law is involved here? Isn't stolen property a state crime? Isn't murder a state crime? How is this in the ATF's jurisdiction? Aren't they supposed to be tracking down NFA violations, busting the chops of license holders and making sure people "engaged in business" pony up for a license?

 

[sigp220.45]

Its probably been in NCIC this whole time, and nobody ever ran it. It popped up, they got it, and you got your money back. Who knows if the guy was ever charged, is dead, in prison working an appeal, or what. Doesn’t really matter. Its a murder gun and will work its way back to the murder police.

 

[Benton Quest]

It seems like NCIC is forever...

When it pops, they have to do something.

And, we don't know the case is closed....this could be what they need to wrap it up.

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk

 

[Iggy]

Statistics. Government agencies live on statistics.

 

[texmex]

Kudos to your LGS for refunding the money.

 

[Charlie Foxtrott]

It sounds a little unusual to me.

In VA when they run the background check on you with the VA state police. They do not submit the serial number of the gun. Only the type of gun that it is. Handgun, shotgun, or rifle. Interesting.

 

[hogblue]

Well if the OP doesn’t live in Illinois it travelled in interstate commerce thus giving ATF jurisdiction in retrieving it. Also if the one who “lost it in the lake fishing” is still alive the 58 is still evidence in a homicide and the individual could be facing charges for tampering with evidence in that case. Don’t believe there are any statutes of limitations regarding such things in homicide cases. Cajun can please step in and correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[sigp220.45]

In VA when they run the background check on you with the VA state police. They do not submit the serial number of the gun. Only the type of gun that it is. Handgun, shotgun, or rifle. Interesting.

Many police departments have details that run serial numbers from guns sold in pawnshops and gunstores. They may have run this one well after the fact and it rang the bell. ATF stops at the store, looks at the 4473, then do a knock and talk. Bye bye gun.