Kid suspended for toy gun in (virtual) class

I believe (if I can recall) another case almost exactly like this one!


Then there is the one where they went after a kid, as he or his Mom posted a picture of both of them target shooting or the the target! Police were sent out to the home, and blew it off.



How about the nibbled out Pop Tart that looked like a gun?


The zero tolerance insanity continues!:eek:
 
Okay, so now that everybody has had a chance for some outraged virtue signalling, let's bring this back down to Earth.

The reported five-day suspension does seem a ridiculous overreaction. But hey, Americans have been in love with minimum-sentencing laws and such that remove all discretion from the justice system; if A, then B, and don't let logic interfere. That kind of thinking then leads to nonsense like this, which I'm sure is the result of blindly applying real-class rules to virtual class.

Otherwise, all we have is the parents' outraged claims about how little the kid did with that toy gun. At least as reported on local Fox Denver, according to the sheriffs report, there was another boy present who did point the gun at the computer, and pulled the trigger. And the vice principal didn't "call the cops", but sent a school resource officer to ascertain that it was indeed a toy gun, which seems reasonable to me.

You lost me on your last point. How is sending a school resource officer, who is a sworn active deputy sheriff, different than "calling the cops?"

And from reports I saw in another source or two, the deputy in his write-up said he threatened to arrest the kid. For a toy gun.

Calling the parent might have had some merit. If they were truly worried sending the police to check on them may also. After that this whole thing is stupid behavior by adults.
 
....
And from reports I saw in another source or two, the deputy in his write-up said he threatened to arrest the kid. For a toy gun.
....

Well, with these stories, inflated to generate outrage, it's always in the choice of language. Implying the school called 911 sounds more dramatic than the resource officer doing his job.

And to quote his report directly, he didn't threaten to arrest the kid. Before leaving, he "advised Mr. Elliot and Isaiah if this behavior continued, Isaiah could potentially face criminal charges for interference with staff, faculty, and students of educational institutions." That's both legally correct and factual. So, depends on how inflammatory you want it to sound to get people worked up.

As far as the teacher and vice-principal are concerned, one can assume they know nothing about guns. Nobody wants to be the one to have to explain after something bad happens "Well, I thought it was just a toy ... "

The only thing ridiculous here was the suspension. Schools went overboard with the zero-tolerance nonsense quite some time ago. And kids can be stupid. I've taken dummy hand grenades, knives, and live ammo away from students and hidden them in my desk before colleagues could see the stuff, freak out about it and get the kids in outsized trouble.
 
This is a pretty conservative community.

Unlikely that the school staff are unfamiliar with guns in that district.

The 5 day suspension is the result of fixed minimum sentences I would expect in such a setting.

Sometimes getting tough on crime works a silly result.
 
Okay, so now that everybody has had a chance for some outraged virtue signalling, let's bring this back down to Earth.

The reported five-day suspension does seem a ridiculous overreaction. But hey, Americans have been in love with minimum-sentencing laws and such that remove all discretion from the justice system; if A, then B, and don't let logic interfere. That kind of thinking then leads to nonsense like this, which I'm sure is the result of blindly applying real-class rules to virtual class.

Otherwise, all we have is the parents' outraged claims about how little the kid did with that toy gun. At least as reported on local Fox Denver, according to the sheriffs report, there was another boy present who did point the gun at the computer, and pulled the trigger. And the vice principal didn't "call the cops", but sent a school resource officer to ascertain that it was indeed a toy gun, which seems reasonable to me.

Um, no.

1) According to the parents, the county sent deputies to the residence. cf NERF GUN SUSPENSION: 12-year-old suspended over toy gun seen in virtual class
2) According to the same story, the school principal called the sheriff's office. Hence the deputies.
3) According to another story, The "resource officer" - Steven Paddack - is an EPSO LEO. Officer Paddack went to the school, viewed the video, recorded it on his body cam, and went to the house. cf Middle schoolers suspended in toy gun crackdown while schooling at home
4) The teacher in question notified the principal, then emailed the mother, who told the teacher that what she saw was a toy gun.
5) Meanwhile, the principal called the sheriffs office, which sent the RO. The principal later called the mother and told her LE was being sent to the home.
6) The first story also quotes the mother as saying the police threatened to press charges against the child.

So, the school did "call the cops", with an indeterminate number of law enforcement showing up at the house, despite verbal clarification that the dangerous item was a toy. The deputy went to the home and, presumptively, clarified that the toy was a toy. The suspension was nonetheless issued.

At the risk of assuming the reporting is accurate, the LEOs did exactly what they were obligated to do. That said, this was all unnecessary. It was clearly defined as a non-threatening situation; the sole officer identified had the best possible information that it was a toy, and even the teacher in question has waffled, as cited in the SO report stating that she assumed it was a toy gun.

And BTW, the school recorded the lesson, without consent or the parent's knowledge. The school refused to give the parents a copy of the recording, afterward stating "It is not our current practice to record classes at this time."

If there's virtue signaling here, it's lost in the overreacting, buffoonery, and wholly unfounded disciplinary action. Thanks to Colorado law, the school will avoid privacy claims (Colorado is a one-party consent state.) The rest of the parents' claims are unsubstantiated.

A sorry, unnecessary mess.
 
Greetings all!

Personally, I see a number of issues here that are disturbing! It sounds like a child's attendance in classes via remote learning is endangering one's right to privacy and security in one's own home! Apparently, anything that is seen via computer by any authority figure in a school can now be reported to the authorities. This then leads to the very dangerous question, because of remote learning, does the home of a remotely taught student become an extension of the physical school's campus, and subject the residence to the policies of the school? Personally, I see a very dangerous legal situation here!
 
Okay, so now that everybody has had a chance for some outraged virtue signalling, let's bring this back down to Earth.

The reported five-day suspension does seem a ridiculous overreaction. But hey, Americans have been in love with minimum-sentencing laws and such that remove all discretion from the justice system; if A, then B, and don't let logic interfere. That kind of thinking then leads to nonsense like this, which I'm sure is the result of blindly applying real-class rules to virtual class.

Otherwise, all we have is the parents' outraged claims about how little the kid did with that toy gun. At least as reported on local Fox Denver, according to the sheriffs report, there was another boy present who did point the gun at the computer, and pulled the trigger. And the vice principal didn't "call the cops", but sent a school resource officer to ascertain that it was indeed a toy gun, which seems reasonable to me.


Even that's not reasonable


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
If I was in this situation I would carefully orient the computer camera to prohibit spying and you can be damned sure I'd take the opportunity to audit the classes and take notes. When this Wuhan stupidity started our son and his wife chose to home school. Both have advanced degrees and may ultimately continue home schooling.
 
Well, with these stories, inflated to generate outrage, it's always in the choice of language. Implying the school called 911 sounds more dramatic than the resource officer doing his job.

And to quote his report directly, he didn't threaten to arrest the kid. Before leaving, he "advised Mr. Elliot and Isaiah if this behavior continued, Isaiah could potentially face criminal charges for interference with staff, faculty, and students of educational institutions." That's both legally correct and factual. So, depends on how inflammatory you want it to sound to get people worked up.

As far as the teacher and vice-principal are concerned, one can assume they know nothing about guns. Nobody wants to be the one to have to explain after something bad happens "Well, I thought it was just a toy ... "

The only thing ridiculous here was the suspension. Schools went overboard with the zero-tolerance nonsense quite some time ago. And kids can be stupid. I've taken dummy hand grenades, knives, and live ammo away from students and hidden them in my desk before colleagues could see the stuff, freak out about it and get the kids in outsized trouble.
So then am I correct in taking that last statement to mean you are a school teacher?
 
Greetings all!

Personally, I see a number of issues here that are disturbing! It sounds like a child's attendance in classes via remote learning is endangering one's right to privacy and security in one's own home! Apparently, anything that is seen via computer by any authority figure in a school can now be reported to the authorities. This then leads to the very dangerous question, because of remote learning, does the home of a remotely taught student become an extension of the physical school's campus, and subject the residence to the policies of the school? Personally, I see a very dangerous legal situation here!


I think you are right and if said litigation find it's way into a liberal judges court room to create legislation via the bench so that legal president is set in court records it then become a paper tiger of horrible plausibilities.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Greetings all!

Personally, I see a number of issues here that are disturbing! It sounds like a child's attendance in classes via remote learning is endangering one's right to privacy and security in one's own home! Apparently, anything that is seen via computer by any authority figure in a school can now be reported to the authorities. This then leads to the very dangerous question, because of remote learning, does the home of a remotely taught student become an extension of the physical school's campus, and subject the residence to the policies of the school?...

What can be seen or not seen when the kids join a remote classroom clearly falls entirely into the parents' responsibility. You don't send your kid to school naked either. If I have to do a Zoom meeting or video conversation, I routinely double-check that the background is neutral.

Once it is being broadcast, of course anything can be reported to authorities, by anyone who sees it; it's no different from someone watching you through your living room window as you strangle somebody ;)

The sticking point, which I think will indeed need to be settled in court eventually, is how far school rules can be enforced off school grounds. There is precedent; teachers have been fired and students suspended for drinking privately with host families after hours on school-sponsored foreign trips.
 
Sounds like the school's rules include a prohibition of toy guns at home. 'Makes me wonder if there's any limit to how much freedom people can be groomed to give up. I suspect not.


Sweet Jeebus! Good thing they didn't see the knife collection hidden in a kitchen drawer!
 
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