moved a little over two years ago about 100 miles to be closer to our now 7 and 10 year old grandkids, and of course their mom and dad. I have been taking both boys shooting pretty often, with an assortment of youth .22's and the older one likes shooting my M1 Carbine. Since they often drop by when I am not home since the move, I no longer "carry" and do not leave a handgun in a holster on the kitchen counter. I also let them handle my firearms anytime they wish, with me to supervise of course, hoping to reduce the curiosity of firearms. Now, all of my firearms are unloaded in my safe, and they do not know the combination. I could never endure a tragedy from an unsecured firearm. As for the OP, for younger children, having some sort of security for firearms and ammunition is essential. It doesn't have to be an expensive safe. And congratulations to your wife in her pursuit of a medical career. My wife is a now retired RN, an one daughter is an RN, and one grand daughter has just embarked on her own nursing degree. What level of firearm security is appropriate of course depends on the ages of one's kids. NV
Gun storage (with young kids)
- Thread starter BabaBlueJay
- Start date
Training for kids in the safe handling of firearms is as important as having a safe. It's not too early to start when they are 3 or 4 years old. When I was about 10, we were visiting my great uncle's farm in Wisconsin. I was with two of my male cousins. The adults went into the living room to talk. My cousins and I were in the kitchen. Propped up by the door was a Winchester lever action rifle. One of my cousins (they were a non-gun owning family) picked up the rifle and pointed it at his brother. I walked over to my cousin and took the rifle from him. I pointed it in a safe direction and started unloading it by actuating the action. The sound travelled and in an instant the adults entered the kitchen. My uncle and aunt saw me with the rifle and immediately starting accusing me of playing with it. My father asked them to let me tell what had happened. My informal firearms training, by my father, might have averted a tragedy that day. I have been the one to train my kids and now my grandkids and others in the safe handling of firearms. I keep them guns locked up, but one rule is that if any one of them want to see and hold one, I stop what I'm doing and open the safe and allow them to do so, while observing all the safety rules. I also tell them that no one is immune to correction and that when they see a violation of the safety rules, even by me, they need to say something.
I would add, women don't like it when they're locked up inside a safe......................
Hopefully you don't know this by experience?
smoothshooter
Member
I am 68 years old and grew up in a mostly rural area with my dad’s guns in the house, hanging on a wall rack and behind the kitchen door. I remember helping my dad clean guns when I was 8 years old.
Got a powerful BB gun on my 7’th birthday, and my own Ithaca single shot .22 rifle when I was 8 1/2. Was allowed to go hunting by myself or with cousins my age when I was 9 or 10. Never any problems. Carried a sharp pocket knife at home and school all the time also. Never occurred to me to cut or shoot anybody at school or anywhere else.
I think more parents were familiar with guns in those days and took the time to teach safe gun habits.
I guess kids on average are just not as responsible now as they were then.
When I was a kid in the 1960’s and 1970’s, we did not have a safe and I never knew anyone who did. Never heard of anyone being shot by accident either.
Different times; different culture.
Got a powerful BB gun on my 7’th birthday, and my own Ithaca single shot .22 rifle when I was 8 1/2. Was allowed to go hunting by myself or with cousins my age when I was 9 or 10. Never any problems. Carried a sharp pocket knife at home and school all the time also. Never occurred to me to cut or shoot anybody at school or anywhere else.
I think more parents were familiar with guns in those days and took the time to teach safe gun habits.
I guess kids on average are just not as responsible now as they were then.
When I was a kid in the 1960’s and 1970’s, we did not have a safe and I never knew anyone who did. Never heard of anyone being shot by accident either.
Different times; different culture.
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smoothshooter
Member
My dad did what you did.
Any time I wanted to look at or handle a guns, my dad ( or mom ) would stop what they were doing, if they could, and let me aim and examine it, which would satisfy my curiosity for the time being.
Depending on the family dynamics, making guns and other potentially dangerous objects the Forbidden Fruit can be counter productive.
smoothshooter
Member
Why not get a carry gun with a magazine disconnect?
When you are away from your gun, simply drop the magazine and stash it on the top shelf in the bedroom closet underneath a folded up pair of pants or something.
That way you don’t have to quit carrying.
flintsghost
Member
When my child was very young, I always took him with me to shoot. As he got older I taught him about firearms and always added I would let him shoot whenever he thought he wanted to. All he had to do was ask. I allowed him to handle them and taught him all the safety rules. I have had gunsafes forever. As a LEO, I have always had one by my side. Firearms were never a mystery to my son. Consequently, he didn't have much desire to do more than shoot at the range. I had a bullet trap in my basement and I taught him to shoot with a Hi Standard Olympic and .22 CB caps in the basement. His education was long and constant. But he never had any desire to play with anything other than a baseball. When my wife and I weren't home he was at child care. I believe that if you take the mystery out of firearms, children will be less likely to try to find a way to get at them. Just my 2 cents worth and worth each one.
smoothshooter
Member
I do not believe that for a minute.
I someone has a kid that has a habit of going through everything in the house and digging around in someone else’s private stuff, they have other issues to deal with besides guns.
The permissive and neglectful upbringing of kids in our society today who end up lacking self-control and delayed gratification contributes to the unraveling of our society.
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UPDATE: I bought the 8 gun stack on tonight. It may not have the security of a safe but with cable lacks on them within it and ammo in a separate pelican that is lockedas well I think I am going to feel a lot more at peace when I'm not home.
I have a 4 and 1 year-old in the house. I have trained the 4 year old how to recognize all of Daddy´s ¨tools¨ and that they are not to be tampered with. Furthermore, if she sees ¨tools¨ anywhere outside our house, she knows to get an adult ala Eddie the Eagle training.
I store my long guns unloaded and with a cable lock or bolt removed in the case of my 22 rifle in a room they do not have access to. When not in use, they remain unloaded with the ammo locked separately in a pelican. I am a big fan of project childsafe, and try to follow their guidelines as much as possible, however, there is one I am not in compliance with and wondered if this added layer was necessary or not. The last layer according to them that I am lacking is a safe or gun cabinet. I am not interested in a safe due to cost and the lack of desire for fire protection. If my house burns down my guns are not high on my priority list as they can be replaced. I have been interested in the stack-on gun cabinet, as it is simple and affordable.
That being said, I am conflicted, because $200 is still not chump change when I pay for everything, including daycare, and my wife to go to college for nursing. I am the only source of income for two more years as she finishes school and money is tight. I am curious whether the cabinet is something that is mandatory in your eyes or if my current system of doing things is acceptable for a household with young kids. I will admit, that rather than a 5th gun, my next big purchase should be another layer of safety, I just wonder at what point it becomes redundant? I apologize if this is a question that has been asked or if I am being completely ignorant here, but I genuinely am torn on this one.
Like you, I have always been less concerned with protecting my guns from damage and more concerned with protecting them from unauthorized access - by my kids or anyone else.
I have 3 Homak double-locking gun cabinets - 2 that I use for my long guns, and one that I converted into a multi-shelf handgun storage cabinet.
These aren't really "gun safes". They have no fire-rating and a really determined thief, with the right tools, could probably break into them. But that is why I also have an ADT monitored home alarm system. Given the amount of time it would take to break one open, I think it is a safe bet that the local police will respond to an alarm LONG before any burglar can break into one of my gun cabinets.
BUT, more importantly, these locking gun cabinets always made sure that ALL of my guns have been safely locked away from inquisitive youngsters - and their friends. It's just a bonus that they are also safe from any smash-and-grab burglars.
I taught my kids from an early age to respect the power of firearms, and not to touch them without me present to supervise.
But at the same time, I have always been enough of a realist to understand that, despite my best efforts at teaching my kids gun safety, I couldn't just sit back and rely 100% on what I taught them to be the be-all-end-all fail-safe solution.
So, I've always kept my guns securely locked up, though not in a Fort Knox level "gun safe".
This two-tiered approach to both gun safety and security has worked well for me for the last 30 years.
JMO and, as always, YMMV...
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The first real training I ever had on handguns and handgun safety was when I got my armed certification for G4S. The curriculum for the armed guard course was the NRA basic handgun safety course and they took a week to get through it.
I remember showing my neighbor a gun (S&W 6906) that I had recently purchased one day. This happened faster than I could stop it but he picked the gun up covered the muzzle with his offhand and pulled the trigger two or three times.
The gun was unloaded (thank God) but I learned a lesson that day. I learned that there are people out there to have absolutely no clue of firearm safety (And I was one of them.) I became a safety Nazi that day
I never handed another person a firearm again without specifically drawing attention to the fact that there was no magazine in the magazine well and directing their attention to the chamber and asking them to verify "You see there's no round in the chamber, right?"
So the point I'm trying to make here is that when it comes to firearms I believe you have to figure for the lowest common denominator. You have to plan for the idiot who's going to put his hand right in front of the muzzle of the gun and pull the trigger two or three times. You also have to plan for the idiot who's going to hand you a gun without dropping the magazine and locking the slide to the rear and showing you that it's clear.
That's why I so firmly believe in keeping my firearms under my direct personal control or locked up at all times.
I remember showing my neighbor a gun (S&W 6906) that I had recently purchased one day. This happened faster than I could stop it but he picked the gun up covered the muzzle with his offhand and pulled the trigger two or three times.
The gun was unloaded (thank God) but I learned a lesson that day. I learned that there are people out there to have absolutely no clue of firearm safety (And I was one of them.) I became a safety Nazi that day
I never handed another person a firearm again without specifically drawing attention to the fact that there was no magazine in the magazine well and directing their attention to the chamber and asking them to verify "You see there's no round in the chamber, right?"
So the point I'm trying to make here is that when it comes to firearms I believe you have to figure for the lowest common denominator. You have to plan for the idiot who's going to put his hand right in front of the muzzle of the gun and pull the trigger two or three times. You also have to plan for the idiot who's going to hand you a gun without dropping the magazine and locking the slide to the rear and showing you that it's clear.
That's why I so firmly believe in keeping my firearms under my direct personal control or locked up at all times.
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kbm6893
Member
UPDATE: I bought the 8 gun stack on tonight. It may not have the security of a safe but with cable lacks on them within it and ammo in a separate pelican that is locked
I have a 4 and 1 year-old in the house. I have trained the 4 year old how to recognize all of Daddy´s ¨tools¨ and that they are not to be tampered with. Furthermore, if she sees ¨tools¨ anywhere outside our house, she knows to get an adult ala Eddie the Eagle training.
I store my long guns unloaded and with a cable lock or bolt removed in the case of my 22 rifle in a room they do not have access to. When not in use, they remain unloaded with the ammo locked separately in a pelican. I am a big fan of project childsafe, and try to follow their guidelines as much as possible, however, there is one I am not in compliance with and wondered if this added layer was necessary or not. The last layer according to them that I am lacking is a safe or gun cabinet. I am not interested in a safe due to cost and the lack of desire for fire protection. If my house burns down my guns are not high on my priority list as they can be replaced. I have been interested in the stack-on gun cabinet, as it is simple and affordable.
That being said, I am conflicted, because $200 is still not chump change when I pay for everything, including daycare, and my wife to go to college for nursing. I am the only source of income for two more years as she finishes school and money is tight. I am curious whether the cabinet is something that is mandatory in your eyes or if my current system of doing things is acceptable for a household with young kids. I will admit, that rather than a 5th gun, my next big purchase should be another layer of safety, I just wonder at what point it becomes redundant? I apologize if this is a question that has been asked or if I am being completely ignorant here, but I genuinely am torn on this one.
I had one of those Stack On cabinets. They’re good to prevent kids from getting in but a thief can open them in less than a minute with a short pry bar.
I used to use those Stack On pistol safes and you can see videos on YouTube of them being opened using paper clips.
I lucked into a free brand new Canon safe. They sell for $1000. I had a Gunvault pistol safes (also garbage) that failed and Gunvault sent me a new one under warranty. It arrives and about three days later I get a voicemail telling me my safe is on the way and will be delivered the next day and to make sure somebody is home to sign for it. I figured it was a mistake since I already got it and ignored the message. My wife calls me the next day and says “what did you buy now? They’re using a forklift to get this thing into the garage!” I get home and check the paperwork. Safe covered under warranty it said. No charge. I call them up and tell them they screwed up and to come get the safe. They apologized and said they’d be in touch with a day for the truck to show up. I waited 3 months with this thing in my garage and finally said “screw it. It’s mine now”. I even registered it for the lifetime warranty. It has fire protection so it protects my guns and important documents.
OP
My 4 year old already knows what my guns look like, has handled the 22 rifle unloaded and knows they are "tools" not "toys". Education is important and I quiz her every week with photos of my guns on my phone. Just because my guns are properly stored now is not a substitute for education, it's a supplement to the education. I want her to know how to handle seeing a gun that may not be secure at a friends or relatives house just in case. Can't always be sure other households have the layers of prevention in place that I do.
Rpg
Member
A safe certainly is a good thing for storing your guns, but remember that its benefit comes from its weight and bulk, not its lock.
My 14 year old son had no difficulty with the lock. I don’t imagine his friends would have had more difficulty. Don’t imagine you can safely ignore other safety protocols such as separate ammo storage. Keep in mind that there’s nothing in the house the kids don’t know about!.
My 14 year old son had no difficulty with the lock. I don’t imagine his friends would have had more difficulty. Don’t imagine you can safely ignore other safety protocols such as separate ammo storage. Keep in mind that there’s nothing in the house the kids don’t know about!.
One suggestion, if I may. I believe the steel locking cabinet will do the job of keeping the guns out of your kids' hands as long as you do your part. As an additional measure against theft I would bolt the cabinet to a wall stud or two. It will make it more difficult to steal the entire cabinet and possibly discourage grab and go type thieves.
Okay, two suggestions - if you have an indoor security cam point it at the cabinet from across the room.
Okay, two suggestions - if you have an indoor security cam point it at the cabinet from across the room.
Just curious, but what kind of lock was this that your 14 year old could easily get past?
What type of lock was it
1) a standard single-sided "flat" key
2) a double cut "flat" key?
3) a cylindrical "barrel" key? If so, how many tumbler "notches"?
4) an electronic keypad lock?
5) a quick access 4 button electronic lock?
How did he defeat the lock?
FWIW, all of the locks on my gun cabinets are the cylindrical style keys with 6 tumblers - and there are two locks on the door of each cabinet.
While not 100% fool-proof, this type of lock seems like it should be the most pick-resistant. But I may be wrong about that, and am always willing to learn.
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AJ
US Veteran
Most kids know where the keys are kept for key lock safes. For combination locks, most have it written down somewhere. If they want in bad enough, it will happen at some point.
Secure firearm storage is must for me, with or without kids. I want to be the only guy with a gun when I come back home from someplace. Yeah, some burglars carry and a safe can be defeated, but I'm all about front end risk management.
Yaworski
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No such thing. When I was about 8, I asked my mother what was in a box that had a lock on it. She said, "none of your business." I learned how to pick locks to find out what was in that box.
Education is the key. My kids had gun safety hammered into their heads to the point that thirty years later, they still remember my ritual for them to be allowed to touch a gun.
When my daughter was five we were at a gun shop when a salesman handed a customer a gun without clearing it. My little girl started yelling, "He didn't check that it was unloaded!!" An S&W rep was in the store and gave here a pin of a 686.
Yaworski
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Just watch the Lock Picking Lawyer.
Yaworski
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You can open any safe in a few minutes with an angle grinder.
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