A case of self defense or not (long) - Sadly update in Post #36.

[Ziggy2525]

In addition to my 20 year Federal career, I also have ten years as a real police officer and professional firefighter, and two years as the criminal investigator for a county prosecutor. I’m more of a bail bond agent than I am a bounty hunter, because I don’t write a bond if I think you’re gonna run. I have much more depth, but I don’t offer advice for free on an anonymous Internet forum. Here’s my best advice for free. Unless it impacts me or mine, I’m out. You can Venmo me in advance for paid advice . . .

A non-answer. Duly noted.

 

[Muss Muggins]

That actually is an answer. Most people do not realize that “No comment” is a comment. Your reply is duly noted as well. You are not getting an answer that you want. That prosecutor was spot on. My 35 years in the business have very explicitly demonstrated to me that the criminal code does not fit well in incidents of mass chaos. Your reaction will be based on your experience and your desire to survive. One of my favorite federal judges once rebuffed an objection by a defendant acting as his own attorney by stating “I do not have to tell you why. This is a trial. This is not law school.” The same reasoning applies here. That is all.

A non-answer. Duly noted.

 

[Onomea]

I’m wondering whether insurance for a small business covers rioting, or whether rioting is considered force majeure. I know that insurance, under its force majeure clause, can exclude coverage for terrorism, for example.

I’m not a lawyer nor an insurance broker, so I don’t know the answer to the question I pose. But if believed my insurance would cover damage caused by rioting, I’d think about just locking up and going home rather than sticking around and trying protect the place.

 

[biku324]

^^^^Entirely reasonable plan.

 

[Ziggy2525]

Just in. Grand jury returned a manslaughter charge against Jake Gardner plus some lesser charges. The special prosecutor alluded that the tipping point for the manslaughter charge was partly due to Gardner’s prior social media postings and text messages showing intent (my paraphrase). Another charge, first degree assault, was related to Gardner firing a second warning shots.

 

[Echo40]

Just in. Grand jury returned a manslaughter charge against Jake Gardner plus some lesser charges. The special prosecutor alluded that the tipping point for the manslaughter charge was partly due to Gardner’s prior social media postings and text messages showing intent (my paraphrase). Another charge, first degree assault, was related to Gardner firing a second warning shots.

Alas, such is the cost of going into battle, you have to be willing to accept the consequences and see it through to the very end.

The situation was completely screwed up to begin with and it was obvious how this was going to end considering all of the circumstances involved.

The first and potentially most difficult factor in any battle is considering whether it is worthy of pursuit, and having the strength to stand down in spite of your anger if it is not.

 

[flagman1776]

At least one of my policies excludes riots and insurrections. An "all risks" policy is probably affordable or unobtainable to those who truly need them.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Was it reasonable for Gardner to believe that his life was in danger?

I do think that is the sole question.

Everything else is either a sad commentary or just sad. Loss of business, cost of defense, whatever. If he was reasonably in fear for his life or of serious bodily harm it's justifiable. If the law in Nebraska is unclear on this point that's a sad commentary as well.

 

[Ziggy2525]

I do think that is the sole question.

Everything else is either a sad commentary or just sad. Loss of business, cost of defense, whatever. If he was reasonably in fear for his life or of serious bodily harm it's justifiable. If the law in Nebraska is unclear on this point that's a sad commentary as well.

I think the messy point is - was Gardner a mutual combatant claiming self defense or was he an innocent bystander that was attacked defending his business.

In his press conference the special prosecutor implied the grand jury thought he was a mutual combatant looking for trouble because of the content of his social media posts and text messages.

Interestingly, I heard the original county attorney, the one that didn’t charge him, on tv saying getting a grand jury indictment is way easier than getting the conviction.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Interestingly, I heard the original county attorney, the one that didn’t charge him, on tv saying getting a grand jury indictment is way easier than getting the conviction.

He is absolutely correct. A good prosecutor could convince a grand jury to indict a cheese sandwich, goes the saying . . .

 

[Onomea]

The bar owner is indicted.

...The bar owner, Jake Gardner, was indicted by a grand jury in Douglas County on four counts, including manslaughter, use of a firearm in the commission of a felony, attempted first degree assault and making terrorist threats, officials said....

...Though Mr. Franklin declined to elaborate on the specific evidence that was presented, he said that the grand jury was “able to understand that Jake Gardner was threatening the use of deadly force in the absence of being threatened with a concomitant deadly force by James Scurlock or anyone who was associated with him.”

White Bar Owner Indicted in Fatal Shooting of Black Man During Protest - The New York Times

 

[Rastoff]

I'm not surprised. I reiterate, he should have gone inside when things got heated.

 

[jcs266]

Jury nullification is the answer in these situations.

 

[biku324]

The bad news for the newly-minted defendant is he needs to find $50-$75k for a defense attorney to keep him from conviction.

Not shooting people is much cheaper.

 

[Muss Muggins]

"Beyond a reasonable doubt," the standard of proof at trial, is a much higher bar than "more likely than not," the standard used by the grand jury.

There are only really two possible criminal defense strategies for any defendant. The first is "I didn't do it," which is rarely successful, even if you actually didn't do it, as evidenced by the wrongful conviction cases that appear with some regularity, especially with advances in forensic science since the crime.

The second, and most successful, is "You can't prove it," which can be a winner even if you did it.

I wish this man luck, and I wish the jury godspeed in sorting out the chaos. There but for the grace of God go us all . . .

 

[Ziggy2525]

This just on the news a few minutes ago. Jake Gardner, the bar owner/defendant here, was supposed to turn himself in today on manslaughter charges from the grand jury. He committed suicide instead. He was defending himself, his father, and his property during a riot. Tragic.

Jake Gardner, accused of manslaughter for Scurlock’s death, has died by suicide

ETA - Press conference held by Mr. Gardner's attorney following his death. Long, but a strong condemnation of social media and the press for their lying and their rush to judgement.

Jake Gardner, man charged in Scurlock death, has died by suicide

ETAA - From the news conference, Gardner was a decorated Marine Vet with two combat tours in Iraq. 70% disability. Suffered from PTSD.

 

[Muss Muggins]

A permanent solution to a temporary problem. Unfortunate . . .

This just on the news a few minutes ago. Jake Gardner, the bar owner/defendant here, was supposed to turn himself in today on manslaughter charges from the grand jury. He committed suicide instead. He was defending himself, his father, and his property during a riot. Tragic.

Jake Gardner, accused of manslaughter for Scurlock’s death, has died by suicide

 

[Rastoff]

Very sad to hear.

Suicide is no joke. Remember to take someone seriously if you see any of the signs.

 

[Doug M.]

What a shame. There never should have been a special prosecutor. The standard for recusal or replacement of an elected prosecutor is very high, and there was nothing I saw about this case that justified a special prosecutor.

 

[Luvmine]

Very sad ending. Thank you for the update.