"OEM" Model 59 magazine questions

[Doc Intrepid]

New member question, likely...

Working on finding original factory Smith & Wesson magazines for a Model 59 pistol manufactured in 1979/1980.

Ordered off GunBroker.com what were advertised as S&W "factory original mags". What arrived were Mec-Gar mags in zip-locks that contain a paper slip complete with bar codes & item numbers on which are printed "S&W factory original mags". [There was no mention of Mec-Gar in the advertising.]

I expected magazines manufactured by Smith & Wesson, not by Mec-Gar.

Can anyone advise whether Mec-Gar did indeed manufacture magazines for S&W Model 59 pistols *from the S&W factory* during the time the pistols were manufactured (1971-1981)?

I'm assuming someone got scammed, but want to be certain before moving along...

Any input is welcome! Thanks, all.

 

[toddimusnimski]

New member question, likely...

Working on finding original factory Smith & Wesson magazines for a Model 59 pistol manufactured in 1979/1980.

Ordered off GunBroker.com what were advertised as S&W "factory original mags". What arrived were Mec-Gar mags in zip-locks that contain a paper slip complete with bar codes & item numbers on which are printed "S&W factory original mags". [There was no mention of Mec-Gar in the advertising.]

I expected magazines manufactured by Smith & Wesson, not by Mec-Gar.

Can anyone advise whether Mec-Gar did indeed manufacture magazines for S&W Model 59 pistols *from the S&W factory* during the time the pistols were manufactured (1971-1981)?

I'm assuming someone got scammed, but want to be certain before moving along...

Any input is welcome! Thanks, all.

I have never heard anything bad about Mec-Gar magazines, so at least you bought good quality. But, I don't believe they supplied S&W with them for the model 59.

Still, Welcome to the Forum! Any pics are always appreciated.

I forgot to ask, how many rounds do they hold? I believe the 59 used 14 round mags.

Todd

 

[4T5GUY]

Meg-Gar’s are perfect magazines, so like “toddimusnimski” said you did fine.

Were there pictures of the mags you bought off GB? I’ve never seen Meg-Gar S&W magazines that had metal base plates but that doesn’t mean much.

I don’t have any blued 15 rnd, (or 17 rnd ones,) Meg-Gar mags but the ones I happily possess have plastic base plates.

There is another seller on GB that offers original 59 magazines every so often. There is also the option of original 459 magazines. They are close to the original 59 ones.

Pictures left to right, 59 mag and a 459 one.

Jim

 

[oldman10mm]

Thanks for the pix, so another 'variation' !

 

[slackjeep]

I just purchased a 4 17rd magazines for our 59 at CDNN SPORTS - CDNN Sports - Huge Savings on Guns and Magazines. These are Meg-Gar’s. They seem to work fine but we haven't done a lot of range practice with them yet.


Here is the link to what we purchased. CDNN SPORTS - SMITH WESSON 59 SERIES 17RD 9MM MAGAZINE MECGAR - MAGAZINES just in case you're interested in what they have to say in their description.

 

[stansdds]

Welcome to the S&W Forums!

Mec-Gar mags are good and there is a good possibility that MecGar was the OEM manufacturer for S&W, but they will not say if they were. If you absolutely must have an original magazine, you can watch the classified section here, also watch eBay and GunBroker, sometimes original magazines turn up. The third generation full size magazines (Model 59xx) also work, but have a plastic base plate and hold 15 rounds.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Thanks to everyone for the responses.

I've attached pics of the magazine, the S&W logo on it, it's Mec-Gar stamp, and its packaging.

The Seller described these two mags as "S&W factory original mags". The S&W factory original mags I already own look exactly like those that 4T5GUY posted above. They have the same "S&W" stamped on a metal baseplate and no other markings.

As shown in the pics, the Mec-gar magazines have the S&W logo stamped on one side, and the Mec-gar/Italy stamp on the other.

I suspect they will be functional - that isn't the point.

First, the Seller advertised them as "S&W factory original magazines" - again like those in 4T5GUYs photos. Made by S&W in the USA.

What was delivered were Mec-Gar magazines made in Italy with a S&W logo on them. The Seller now maintains that the S&W logos stamped on them makes these 'S&W factory magazines'. Nowhere in his item description did he mention these were Mec-Gar magazines. He described them as S&W factory products.

I maintain that Mec-gar stamping a logo on a magazine made in Italy does not magically transform that magazine into a true 1971-1981 vintage factory original S&W-made magazine that was manufactured in the US.

S&W is the original manufacturer of the pistol. Mec-gar manufactures aftermarket magazines. They may have done so under contract to S&W, but Mec-gar is not the original factory manufacturer of Model 59 mags. There is a difference between S&W-made mags and Mec-gar-made magazines that the Seller refuses to acknowledge.

Second, the market recognizes that difference. Mec-gar magazines sell for around $30 on GunBroker. True factory original S&W magazines sell for $70 and above. In this case I paid $80 apiece for 2 magazines that were sold as "S&W Factory Original Magazines" and what arrived in the packaging were 2 Mec-gar aftermarket magazines. (The packaging does appear to be genuine - shown in the photo below.)

Online sales are always a gamble, and sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. In this case the Seller refuses to take any returns, so this one didn't go my way.

I wanted to know if anyone here had heard of Mec-Gar producing "OEM" Model 59 magazines for S&W. I had not, but don't really know if the packaging these magazines arrived in initially held actual S&W mags, or if the Mec-Gar mags were ever sold in these packages as "S&W Factory Original Mags".

Next time I suppose I'll know enough to ask more questions before trusting the item descriptions to be accurate!!

Best to all, and thanks again for your responses.

 

[jsbethel]

I have received several magazines from CDNN in that same packaging. The fact that we are now discussing the 20 round magazines somewhat changes things in that I believe Mec-Gar did actually make those for S&W although not in the period the model 59 was made.

 

[toddimusnimski]

Thanks to everyone for the responses.

The Seller described these two mags as "S&W factory original mags". The S&W factory original mags I already own look exactly like those that 4T5GUY posted above. They have the same "S&W" stamped on a metal baseplate and no other markings.

First, the Seller advertised them as "S&W factory original magazines" - again like those in 4T5GUYs photos. Made by S&W in the USA.

What was delivered were Mec-Gar magazines made in Italy with a S&W logo on them. The Seller now maintains that the S&W logos stamped on them makes these 'S&W factory magazines'. Nowhere in his item description did he mention these were Mec-Gar magazines. He described them as S&W factory products.

I maintain that Mec-gar stamping a logo on a magazine made in Italy does not magically transform that magazine into a true 1971-1981 vintage factory original S&W-made magazine that was manufactured in the US.

S&W is the original manufacturer of the pistol. Mec-gar manufactures aftermarket magazines. They may have done so under contract to S&W, but Mec-gar is not the original factory manufacturer of Model 59 mags. There is a difference between S&W-made mags and Mec-gar-made magazines that the Seller refuses to acknowledge.

I suppose it depends on the sellers exact wording, and you didn't mention where/how in the ad they were identified as Model 59 magazines.

FWIW, while the two magazines below would fit and function in your Model 59 perfectly, they of course would not be "true 71-81 vintage". I don't believe they were "Made by S&W in the USA" but by various subcontractors (note slight differences), probably both foreign and domestic, probably including Mec-Gar. They only have "Smith and Wesson" on the baseplate, no logo (newer 5900 series magazines do have the S&W logo.) Regardless, they are "S&W factory original magazines".

Mec-Gar's website shows your magazine but with their own logo, not the S&W logo. It wouldn't hurt to contact Mec-Gar and ask if the ones you purchased are the type supplied to S&W. It's unfortunate that you didnt get what you were expecting, but from the sellers perspective, he probably took the magazine packaging at face value and listed it word-for-word. It would have been more accurate for him to describe them as "S&W factory original magazines by Mec-Gar", but he may not have removed them from the packaging to read all the markings.

Thanks for posting the pics as it helped to clear things up a bit. Please stick around and continue to share. This is a great forum and I'm always learning something.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

"I have received several magazines from CDNN in that same packaging. The fact that we are now discussing the 20 round magazines somewhat changes things in that I believe Mec-Gar did actually make those for S&W although not in the period the model 59 was made."

Thank you for the input. It was pretty clear that Mec-Gar made these mags for S&W under an arrangement, but as you remarked, I don't think this occurred during the period the Model 59 was made. I will make an effort to confirm one way or another, as it's worth an email or phonecall.

"...FWIW, while the two magazines below would fit and function in your Model 59 perfectly, they of course would not be "true 71-81 vintage". I don't believe they were "Made by S&W in the USA" but by various subcontractors (note slight differences), probably both foreign and domestic, probably including Mec-Gar. They only have "Smith and Wesson" on the baseplate, no logo (newer 5900 series magazines do have the S&W logo.) Regardless, they are "S&W factory original magazines".

Thank you for this clarification. It could well be that the Seller and I were using the same words, but each of us ascribed our own meaning to them. I have certainly always defined a 'factory original (or OEM) magazine' as a magazine manufactured by the manufacturer of the pistol - Para Ordnance, Ruger, Sig, S&W, or whomever. Whatever was not manufactured by the original manufacturer I defined as an "aftermarket" magazine, produced by some other supplier.

If it is common now to regard magazines produced by other companies for S&W (in this case) to be legitimately referred to as "S&W factory original magazines", even if they weren't made by S&W, this has escaped my notice.

I continue to believe this particular Seller omitted key details in his item description in part due to his "no returns" policy. (As an example, I would not have paid the price he was asking for a Mec-Gar magazine, had I know that's what he was selling.)

That said, your comment suggests it could also have been a case where we defined "factory original magazines" differently.

I appreciate your comments sincerely.

 

[4T5GUY]

After I responded to your original post I remembered one thing.

I acquired an excellent nickel but different than norm early 59. I installed an arched mainspring housing, Uncle Mikes grips and got a couple Meg-Gar 17rnd mags for it. They would seat perfect but that was it. They function fine in my other, (later,) two 59’s, 459 and 659. The 17rnd Meg-Gar magazines work in everything else so that’s weird. The mags that came with that 59 function fine. I wasn’t interested enough at the time and moved on.

Do the 20rnd mags you got fit and function in your 59?

Jim

 

[Racer X]

OEM means, in any circumstance, Original Equipment Manufacturer. And since, at one time or another, MecGar made magazines for S&W to sell as their own product, MecGar IS an OEM supplier to S&W. HOWEVER, it is seriously doubtful that MecGar made the original S&W magazines in 1971-81 for 59 pistols.

Does this clear things up?

A magazine FOR a S&W 59 does not mean the same thing as a S&W 59 magazine.

If you really really care, you need to search for "Original S&W 59 magazine"

The only not manufactured by S&W metal semi-automatic pistol magazines I would buy and use are MecGar magazines.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

After I responded to your original post I remembered one thing.

I acquired an excellent nickel but different than norm early 59. I installed an arched mainspring housing, Uncle Mikes grips and got a couple Meg-Gar 17rnd mags for it. They would seat perfect but that was it. They function fine in my other, (later,) two 59’s, 459 and 659. The 17rnd Meg-Gar magazines work in everything else so that’s weird. The mags that came with that 59 function fine. I wasn’t interested enough at the time and moved on.

Do the 20rnd mags you got fit and function in your 59?

Jim

Heh...not sure Jim.

They just arrived yesterday. Haven't had time to go to the range yet, and until this morning I'd intended to return them.

When that proved impossible, it was time to move in different directions. But I'll give them a shot (no pun intended) and get back to you!

 

[Doc Intrepid]

OEM means, in any circumstance, Original Equipment Manufacturer. And since, at one time or another, MecGar made magazines for S&W to sell as their own product, MecGar IS an OEM supplier to S&W. HOWEVER, it is seriously doubtful that MecGar made the original S&W magazines in 1971-81 for 59 pistols.

Does this clear things up?

A magazine FOR a S&W 59 does not mean the same thing as a S&W 59 magazine.

If you really really care, you need to search for "Original S&W 59 magazine"

The only not manufactured by S&W metal semi-automatic pistol magazines I would buy and use are MecGar magazines.

It's good to know that Mec-Gar has broad support amongst the forum members here. While I haven't tried these yet, it would surprise me if they failed to function.

One of the things that was disappointing in this outcome was that in my searches (on GunBroker) I did in fact specify "original S&W factory magazines", as you suggested.

In fact, that specific terminology was what the Seller used in his ad. (Which is why that's what I thought I would be getting.) We quite agree it is seriously doubtful that MecGar made the original S&W magazines in 1971-81 for 59 pistols.


"The best lessons in life are painful, humiliating, or expensive".

(When they are not all three.)

I guess I'll count myself fortunate. Thanks for your input - I appreciate it.

 

[flagman1776]

S&W contracted out many small parts. I don't think they ever made their own magazines. I rather think S&W would be all over an after market maker applying counterfeit logos on the magazine base without permission. Logos all my magazines that came with the pistols at the time came with those base plate logos.

 

[sndbggr1484]

This is what my Factory 59,20 round mag looks like.I believe it to be correct.Don't know why the bluing is gone on the bottom.No S&W logo on tube but is on the baseplate. My dog let me borrow a hair for the baseplate picture.LOL

 

[Racer X]

Just an FYI on the 15 rd MecGars vs the 17rd MecGars. The 15 round ones have a normal looking follower and spring and what seems like a perfect factory taper on the top where it transitions from the staggered stack to single round. The 17 round ones have a funky hollow almost like a cap follower and a collapsing into itself spring. This allows the column to be even shorter when collapsed, to squeeze in the 2 extra rounds. BUT the taper seems to have been tweaked a tiny bit, likely because of the funky follower. In addition, the floor plate on the 15 rounder is different than the 17 rounder. The lip for the base plate is normal on the 15 rounder (flanged in) and on the 17, flanged out. For those of you who know about the S&W "+2 adapter" this is why they can't be used with a 17 rd MecGar.

I discover the taper issue, as they both work fine in my S&W 5906 and 6906 pistols, but only the 15 round MecGar would fit in my KelTec P-11. I suspect the KelTec, designed while the 459 pistols were still being made, spec'd the interior grip dimensions to those measurements. Wild guess. I bet if I could talk directly to George Kelgren at KelTec, he would verify my guess. Oddly enough, the Beretta 92 full sized, flush fit 18 round magazine has the correct taper, and has the mag cut out on the other side, so I will be trying to cut new notches in 2 Beretta mags as an experiment. Why, you ask? Because the KelTec adapters for the longer S&W magazines are SLEEVES. They WILL work on an adapted Beretta body, and I can have a 3 fingered grip on a Beretta 92C 15 round magazine for a 15+1 pocket pistol when I use a 6906 to P-11 sleeve. OR, a 5906 sleeve for an 18+1 full sized grip on the 92 full sized flush 18 round magazine.

KelTec P-11s and the early, first generation Sub2000 carbines were made to use S&W double stack magazines. Back in the day, a P-11 was designed to be a back-up pistol for law enforcement carrying a 59xx or 69xx pistol, or earlier, a 5x9 or 669 duty weapon.

I purchased a P-11 because I already had a bunch of 5906 and 6906 mags. I brought up the Beretta mod because 69xx mags aren't available new, but there are at LEAST 2 options for substitutes. One is based on a MecGar KelTec P-11 12 rd magazine with a special inch long plastic spacer/base plate. MecGar is one of the OEM magazine makers for KelTec. This Beretta hackis just a 3rd option, and it will hold 3 extra rounds in the same length, and with the same pinky rest style floor plate.

The MecGar Beretta 92C mag you want is the 15 round, flush fit anti-friction coated MGPB92C15AFC

The MecGar Beretta 92FS 18 round flush fit anti friction coated MGPB9218AFC

Those are MecGar product numbers. You can get them from Greg CoteLLC. Great small business to do business with. The AFC coating was designed for over in the Sand Box in the military M9 pistols.

SO, if you want an original S&W magazine or two for your collection, great. For regular shooting, wear out a 15 round, or if the taper works in your specific pistol, the 17 round flush fit, or the modified 18rd Beretta magazine.

I hope this helps some of you. I know this is long, and sort of covers several sub subjects, but maybe the info will show up when searched multiple ways. I swear I cover the KelTec/S&W magazine info every year or two going back at least a decade. Now I add the Beretta info as an option.

This is all about saving the rare and/or expensive early mags, and wearing out current, common and inexpensive modern production ones.

 

[JcMack]

I've had probably a dozen 9mm 69XX, 59XX, 59 models over the years. They were all gone until yesterday when I bought a 915 off a local gun forum that came with only one orig mag. No big deal says I because I got a deal on the gun. Who ate all the orig magazines, I don't remember a problem in the past. After lookin around on the net I settled for a MecGar 17rd. I recently purchased a KT P11 new. It's the last of the indigenous natives cause KT don't make them no mo. I found a 6904 mag in my "stuff" box and it works fine in my P11. I had a P11 a long time ago and I remember aftermarket 6906 mags would not fully seat in the gun. I recently got a Beretta 92fs that came with 2 factory mags and 4 MecGars. Are you saying the 92 mags could be modified to fit the 915?

 

[Sevens]

I rather think S&W would be all over an after market maker applying counterfeit logos on the magazine base without permission. Logos all my magazines that came with the pistols at the time came with those base plate logos.

This is definitely true and recently demonstrated. The wood 3rd Gen replacement grips out of Turkey that have recently been quite popular and are found under the name "KSD Grips" first appeared on the market with the S&W name and logo, but were quickly chased away, by what was likely a cease & desist letter by the Mothership.

 

[WR Moore]

Very slightly off topic, but related.....sometime back someone gifted me a stainless 14 rd mag for the 659. It has no markings on the magazine body, I don't recall any markings on the metal base plate. I'm not sure what I did with the original base plate as I converted it to a 15 round version with all new internal parts and a bit of surgery.

Nor were there any S&W markings on our issue 1006 mags.

The S&W base plate marking shown above may actually be an identifier marking by the manufacturer rather than a trade mark. Trying to ID various magazines strictly by appearance would cause massive problems in the shipping departments.