Why is there a pin hole in early model 39-2 hammer

You learn something new every day hanging out here, even if sometimes it is obscure and seems implausible. Regardless of what the hole in the hammer is REALLY for on the 39/39-2 pistols this has been a spirited, lively and interesting discussion.

Carry on, please.
 
Because there's too many internet commandos who come up with this kind of stuff and then push themselves off as some kind of expert. When they've never been in the military, never done any serious training, and never trained a single person. They sit in their basement and imagine something as fact then go around spouting it off until they get some other unknowing person to believe them. Then the myth is continued until to unknowing masses accept it as fact without ever knowing a thing about it. And those are the internet commandos. Gun shows and gun magazines are full of them. They become 'experts' not because they actually have done anything or know anything but because they claim themselves to be 'experts'.

I agree to a certain extent--plausible but unsubstantiated assertions get repeated and become quasi-facts. However:

a) the opposite is also true sometimes, i.e. just because someone has a military or law enforcement background they think they are experts at everything, including history.
b) I didn't see anyone in this thread claim expertise, except you.
c) we have many serious collectors and students of history on this forum. To paint them all with such a broad brush and with undeserved vehemence is unfortunate and unnecessary.

There is no question that much of history, be it training methods or military doctrine in general, seems silly with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. The same military manual shows the old "cup and saucer" method of a two handed hold on a pistol and lots of other positions and techniques that have been revised. But the documentation is there for use of a lanyard around the hammer for dry firing practice.

I went back and looked at the original patent for the S&W Automatic 9mm Pistol. The hole in the hammer is in the original drawings but there is no mention of it in the description or the patent claims.
 
I first read about the string/hammer trick 40+ years ago in a short blurb in The American Rifleman responding to the question of why some 1911 spur hammers had been found with small holes drilled vertically through the spur.
 
I think the string/dryfire theory is completely plausible. I was military and teach LE, started in 2000 with the Beretta.

We would dryfire with an instructor/fellow student standing to the primary side of the "shooter", who would briskly hand cycle the slide by gripping the underside, front of the slide. This was fairly easy with the Beretta because of it's scalloped front end.
 
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Since you probably didn't know it but the Colt Commander was not adopted by the US military either. So much for your theory.
There's a lot of other autos manufactured, I named a few, that had/have holes in the hammer that were never US military issued firearms.
Just because someone adopted some method does not mean that was the purpose of the hole.

First, I never said the U.S. military adopted the Colt Commander (I'm aware they did not).

Second, I made it quite clear I did not know the reason for the hole in the hammer.

Third, using a piece of cord to cock the hammer of a 1911 or 1911A1 is not my theory. This is well documented. As recently as 1960, the Army was still advocating this technique for training in FM 25-35 and the Air Force in AFM 50-17. That was just from a quick search. The Marines suggested 550 cord through the hole in the hammer to aid cocking an M9 while wearing gloves. That tidbit is in MCRP 3-01B, page 1-11. They even included a picture.

Hey, I'm just trying to enjoy a light discussion on a gun forum.
 
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I was once told the hole was for a lanyard that could be used for cocking the hammer for dry fire practice. The idea was the lanyard went around your neck the to cock the hammer you extended the gun just a little farther allowing the lanyard to pull the hammer back to the cocked position
I'm not saying this answer sounds far fetched but it does sound just like some Cock & Bull explanation I would make up and tell my little girl when she asked me questions I couldn't answer .

My Dad once told me ...never tell a kid you don't know ...tell them something even if it's a whopper story ... You don't have to know everything ... just act like you do ...have an answer for every question !

I think you been talking to my Dad !
 
3 Observations:
1. I stand corrected (post 3) in that all 39-2 hammers were the same based on Army field Manuals instructions... FMJ although that leads me to...

2. Where are all the pics of this hole? I am post #49... Not 1 pic of this hole in the hammer? There should be someone who has a pic of a pic at least. Even searching an old post from 2010 referenced the FMJ but no pics.

3 And finally ... 49 posts and 3 days since our OP his posted his question to start this thread. He hasn't been heard from since. OP are you there ? Do you have a pic?
 
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Here's an image from an earlier thread:
cBeorUr.jpg
 
I'm not saying this answer sounds far fetched but it does sound just like some Cock & Bull explanation I would make up and tell my little girl when she asked me questions I couldn't answer .

My Dad once told me ...never tell a kid you don't know ...tell them something even if it's a whopper story ... You don't have to know everything ... just act like you do ...have an answer for every question !

I think you been talking to my Dad !

I always told my kids that I knew everything.....and what I didn't know, I made up.
 
Is String Theory the same as String Cheese?
Yes.

"String Cheese Theory"

"String Cheese Theory is a controversial explanation for life, the universe and cheeses. First collated by an unemployed welder with too much time on her hands in 1982, the roots of the theory lie in the discrepancy between relativity theory and quantum maniacs. Fierce arguments between the two camps focused on the question of how cheeses and bananas can coexist in an infinite 11 dimensional macrocosm.

The idea that string cheese had something to do with ultimate reality originated with mozzarella. It is reasonable to assume that because mozzarella was the first cheese sold in string form in the United States, that it is an American theory, and will be in the running for the Leavening Science Awards. With all of that filthy money, the Americans purchased huge amounts of cyclotrons, lollygagging consultants, experts on Giovanni Boccacio, tree goats and cigarettes."
String Cheese Theory >> Illogicopedia - The nonsensical encyclopedia anyone can mess up

And people think we aren't serious intellectuals in this country....
 
Well I now have a nomination for most useless thread ever. Regardless of what the hole was used for, it's there. Why it's there is the big question, but more importantly is who really cares? There have been many attempts good and bad at improvised training techniques and the string idea ranks right up there as rather dumb. In MP school we used the two person shooter/coach method when dry firing. The coach stood perpendicular to the front of the shooter and would rack the slide to simulate recoil and re-cock the .45 while the shooter held the pistol in place. It worked okay for new shooters to get a feel for the pistol and what recoil felt like. I have never seen anyone use a string though. My experience is lengthy training new shooters while working in law enforcement and I would never advocate using a string even if it was in a manual of some sort, but I certainly don't think for a second that was the purpose of the hole in the hammer. I think it was an aesthetic feature which was popular at the time on other pistols, or a machining detail for producing the hammer. Later on people came up with all sorts of secondary ideas for the hole such as a cocking device via the string, but I like the idea of using it as a range finder held at arms length. I can see the instructions for use already.....grasp pistol held with muzzle pointing to left or right side of shooter. Pistol must be held at full arm extension. Look through range finder hole in hammer. If target is bigger than the hole it is within range and acceptable to fire at. If target is smaller than the hole in hammer, put pistol in holster and obtain a rifle. Lordy....Lordy!

Rick H.
 
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No Rick, the Thread offers our members the opportunity to engage in a
conversation, and contribute ideas and facts. Lets get some blood pumping and brain cells energized. Maybe back in the early 1950s when the gun was on the drawing board, some young engineer walked by and said, that hammer would look better with a hole in it, like a Mauser C93 or Walther PP. We will never know. Just a thought. But, the range finder
was the best!
 
The real question is, why did Smith and Wesson QUIT putting a hole in the hammer?
Mauser introduced the hole in the hammer in 1896 and was followed by Walther, Radom, and Colt that I can think off offhand.
I think Smith was taking a chance omitting it after its desirability had been demonstrated for so long.
 
For decades, Richard McMillan has been the "go to" guy for all things related to S&W Automatic pistols. His response in the thread from 5 years ago:

"Smith & Wesson deleted the hole when the hammer was redesigned. This allowed the factory to determine which hammer was in the gun with out removal of the hammer. The new hammer had a stronger full cock notch and a relocated half cock notch."
 
BTW, I've gone back through the existing literature on the development of the 9mm Automatic Pistol (using books by Charron, Nonte, McMillan, Meadows and old American Rifleman articles). The prototype (X numbered) pistols vary--some have holes in the hammer, some don't. Even the patent drawings vary. I doubt there was any military requirement for the hole, in spite of the FM23-35 manual. It was customary and aesthetically pleasing--and easy to omit when S&W redesigned the hammer for the reason Mac posted.
 
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