Current FBI Training/Service 9MM

[29-1]

Thought you ammo folks might be interested in what the FBI issues agents for training/service 9mm ammo right now.
Enjoy,
Chuck

 

[bigwheelzip]

That Federal load seems like the "TMJ, Total Metal Jacket" of their cousins from Speer Lawman.

 

[triaxle]

I have 135 plus P. in the flex lock is it the same .also , the Speer L/E FBI 147 G/2but I never shoot much of it . . You would think the red rubber filler would catch on the ramp ????????

 

[Nevada Ed]

I am guessing that in a full 9mm pistol that 135 +P might be doing around 1100 fps but the 147 for target use might be down loaded to 888 fps for better control.

It will be interesting to see what the numbers turn up to be in those loads for the FBI training.
I prefer the Speer 147 over the Berry, since more powder can fit into the little 9mm case with a OAL of 1.13".

 

[GaryHK]

There's a bunch of the Hornady stuff on GB being sold for $90-100/box. Doesn't have the "FBI" nomenclature but does say LE only.

I wonder if it's any different. Description is same, but SKU is different.

 

[ContinentalOp]

Interesting. Last I heard anything about their duty ammo was that they were using the upgraded Speer 147gr Gold Dot G2 ammo.

 

[Loyaljeeper]

Interesting. Last I heard anything about their duty ammo was that they were using the upgraded Speer 147gr Gold Dot G2 ammo.

No, the G2 lasted about a year was all. The Hornady was supposedly the preferred round from the beginning, but contract bidding issues kept it from winning the contract. These boxes are from a FBI field office. This was the packaging for the Hornady in 2018. I do not have the 45. Supposedly, all 45s are being phased out to include personally owned.

 

[swsig]

I have 135 plus P. in the flex lock is it the same .also , the Speer L/E FBI 147 G/2but I never shoot much of it . . You would think the red rubber filler would catch on the ramp ????????

I have a 1.0 Shield 9. It is my only 9mm pistol. It is somewhat ammo-picky, and it has had several failures to feed or eject with a few popular self-defense rounds. For example, it has a 10% FTF rate with HST 124g rounds, which tend to hang up on the feed ramp. On the other hand, it has fired nearly 400 rounds of Hornady Critical Duty 135g +P ammo without a single failure, so that is what I carry. It could be that the filled-in hollow points actually reduce the chance of the bullet getting hung up on the feed ramp, thus enhancing reliability. Maybe that's why the FBI chose it.

 

[Loyaljeeper]

Straight from the mouth of an agent in the FBI's firearms unit, criteria required consistent expansion and penetration. If a particular bullet didn't expand the same diameter every time, and penetrate the same depth every time, The load would not be considered.

They didn't want a bullet that expanded but expanded to different dimensions each time nor one that stood the chance of over penetrating. In a perfect world, every bullet fired would expand to .60 and penetrate 15" each and every time.

Believe it or not, I never heard any of them say the load had to cycle reliably. I'm sure it was a given that it was a requirement and would be booted out of the running if not reliable.

Something else I just remembered, a requirement was set forth that the loads perform the same regardless of the geographical location. It had to perform the exact same in Miami, Fl and Utqiagvik, AK.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I love comments that second guess massive procurement test and evaluation projects. Every law enforcement agency I know of is issuing Critical Duty. It's the new gold standard for duty ammo. And it runs like a sewing machine thru every pistol I have.

 

[rockquarry]

These discussions quickly become obsessive threads of the easy chair textbook experts. FBI reports on tested ammo might be very worthwhile, but you, your gun, and the best ammo for it and for you may not be close to what the FBI came up with. So many look for the easy way, but to do it right requires some actual shooting of various ammos. If an ammo functions perfectly, is accurate, recovery from recoil is quick, and you consistently hit what you aim at, that's your ammo. All other considerations like bullet style, jello performance, etc. become very secondary. How many times has this been covered here and elsewhere?

 

[triaxle]

That's god to know , and I can believe that I think the Fed HST stuff is a safe bet in what ever caliber.

 

[Loyaljeeper]

That's god to know , and I can believe that I think the Fed HST stuff is a safe bet in what ever caliber.

The HST is probably the most widely used load in the US right now behind Speer Gold Dots. There is no reason not to use it.

 

[Fastbolt]

Haven't heard of any progress on bidding for the new CA state ammunition contract. Last time it was awarded to Vista.

In 9, .40 & .45 any agency customers could choose either Fed HST or Speer GDHP; in .357SIG it was only GDHP; .38SPL was Speer (Ball & JHP); 12GA was Fed; and .223/5.56 was either Fed or Speer, w/various loads available.

Ammo contracts change, for various reasons.

Right now being able to get something delivered is a significant consideration.

From what I've been hearing, among my area, HST has been seeing significant LE sales at the state & local level, mostly because it's less expensive than Gold Dot.

I'm not as much of an ammo snob as I was as a younger man (including when I was an earnest young firearms instructor and armorer ). I have an assortment of the major newer ammo designs, and also have my fair share of older designs/production put back as rainy day ammo.

 

[Eric300]

Blah, Blah, Blah.....'You Want Miracles? I Give You The F-B-I'

 

[riverrat38]

The Hornady Critical Duty ammo says "Law Enforcement Only".
Does this include LEOSA?

Best,
Rick

 

[ContinentalOp]

That's god to know , and I can believe that I think the Fed HST stuff is a safe bet in what ever caliber.

The HST is probably the most widely used load in the US right now behind Speer Gold Dots. There is no reason not to use it.

FWIW, I'm using HST in 9mm and .45, with SB-GDHP in .38 Special.

 

[Muss Muggins]

The same load is (was) available to the general public, but 50 round boxes are hard to find . . .

The Hornady Critical Duty ammo says "Law Enforcement Only".
Does this include LEOSA?

Best,
Rick

 

[bigwheelzip]

The Hornady Critical Duty ammo says "Law Enforcement Only".

So do the 50 round boxes of Federal 147gr P9HST2 I buy, and they are unobtainable in retail stores around here, but I've ordered them online. I'm not LEO and the "LEO only" label isn't anything legal for end users to be concerned about.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I haven't been around any FBI agents for 25 years or so. Are they still wearing 3-button business suits, crisp white shirts, boring neckties, and snap-brim fedoras?

So many new options in wardrobe and accessories. Must be difficult to keep up.