Has anyone had any experience with Rock Island Auctions. I am exhibiting withdraw symptoms from not being able to attend a gun show for the last year. RIA had several Schofield in their latest auction but a few appeared to be abused and their descriptions seemed pretty generic.
Rock Island Auctions
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bigl1911
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If you have not been to a RI auction you have missed a very special event.
Well, RIA has grown to be a force to be reckoned with and as such attracts a lot of exceptional guns in their auctions. In antique arms, the premier auctions are distinctly different animals from the regional or other categories. As with all auctions a lot of due diligence is needed and in the lower level auctions I know some folks resent the grouping of various guns into one lot. But their general process and especially photography seem some of the best to me. I found the offerings of the Gerald Klaz collection in the last years worth of premier auctions to be one of the most exceptional opportunities for antique S&W in like the last decade. Of course this came with some pretty high prices, but I have been happy with ones I got and think most other folks I know feel the same. Prices are set by the market and we each have to control our appetites.
jmace57
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One of my best friends, who knew nothing about firearms, had inherited a large collection of Civil War and Colt SAA items. He used RI as the auctioneer, and was very happy with how everything was handled. They get a lot of exposure.
lrb1200
Member
I let them sell a couple of high end curio Winchester
lever guns in their "Premier" auction last year.
Seller fee feels a bit high, but you're paying for an
exposure and marketing that is beyond Excellent,
that you would never be able to achieve yourself.
lever guns in their "Premier" auction last year.
Seller fee feels a bit high, but you're paying for an
exposure and marketing that is beyond Excellent,
that you would never be able to achieve yourself.
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ol777gunnerz
Member
You have to be careful, they do not always do well like any other auction. Sometimes they will sell 2 or more guns in a lot, often bringing less money than if sold separately, which I seen several times this wk. I sent them info & photos on a 1st Model S&W single shot which had lettered to a prominent & known figure in competition shooting, they said it was worth just over $1,000. A well known SWCA member & nationally known seller did an appraisal, gun in hand, & appraisal was $4,500.
I have bid and bought from them. Make sure you understand all the fees involved before you bid. Buyer's premium, credit card fees, internet bidding fee, tax, shipping, etc. all add up to quite a bit over the hammer price. For the purposes of bidding, I add 25 percent to the hammer price to estimate the "to the door" price, not including any FFL transfer. I've been watching the current auction going on this week and prices as usual seem pretty high to me. I am seeing most lots hammer at about what I would consider market price, so add in the fees on top, and I guess the "market" has moved up quite a bit!
Buying an item from any auction must be approached with trepidation and a healthy dose of due diligence. If you cannot personally inspect the gun, or have a trusted knowledgeable friend inspect it, well then, you could be in for a surprise. Maybe positive, maybe negative. Auction houses are in the business of making money, period. If they fulfill the role of supplying you the buyer with exactly what you are looking for, then great. I have seen and handled many guns prior to an auction where the description never mentioned the fact of damage, missing parts, refinish etc. Were the descriptions inaccurate? Maybe not. Were they complete? Certainly not. There is a wide grey area where the descriptions range from expert and fully disclosed, to outright incompetent and negligent. As are most things in this hobby....buyer beware. Rock Island Auction has fancy catalogs and some truly unique and fascinating guns. You still have to be on your 'A' game.
On other then real high $$ guns they often have only 2 photo's, and neither one a real close up. Then grouping 3, 5, 7, and up to 12 guns, to me it does a real disservice to the seller of the guns. Also, the buyer maybe wants 1 or 2 guns from the lot and then has to dispose of the rest, often at a loss.
I would much rather deal with smaller 500-600 gun auctions that have 10-12 good clear photo's and detailed descriptions.
I would much rather deal with smaller 500-600 gun auctions that have 10-12 good clear photo's and detailed descriptions.
I want to say my relationship with Rock Island Auction is a love-hate relationship but I can't even figure out where the love part even fits in.
When I bid at auction, after I do my homework and determine a firearm is legitimate, and not over represented, or intentionally fraudulently represented, which is commonplace in the industry, and I think this is more prevalent with RIA, than others. So, after I do my homework, I figure out the MAXIMUM I am willing to pay on an item, and my bid would account for the total cost which would include buyer's premium, taxes, shipping, etc. A 4K bid thus pushes 5k.
Doing all this, I think that most folks don account for all this, or exceed their psychological maximum due to lack of willpower, or they just have deeper pockets than I.
So, at OTHER auction houses, I am often outbid, but sometimes I win an item.
With RIA, I apply the same formula and am NEVER successful. Not sure why I even look, but I found an item in the auction yesterday I liked, submitted a fair bid of 4K, which is pushing 5k in the end, and the 4K was significantly higher than the preauction estimate of $1800 to $2500, and still got blown out of the water, hammered at $5500, not including the rest of the fluff.
Not sure why I even bother. Seems to be a waste of time with RIA, as most items seem to hammer at greater than full retail even before any additional fees are accounted for.
When I bid at auction, after I do my homework and determine a firearm is legitimate, and not over represented, or intentionally fraudulently represented, which is commonplace in the industry, and I think this is more prevalent with RIA, than others. So, after I do my homework, I figure out the MAXIMUM I am willing to pay on an item, and my bid would account for the total cost which would include buyer's premium, taxes, shipping, etc. A 4K bid thus pushes 5k.
Doing all this, I think that most folks don account for all this, or exceed their psychological maximum due to lack of willpower, or they just have deeper pockets than I.
So, at OTHER auction houses, I am often outbid, but sometimes I win an item.
With RIA, I apply the same formula and am NEVER successful. Not sure why I even look, but I found an item in the auction yesterday I liked, submitted a fair bid of 4K, which is pushing 5k in the end, and the 4K was significantly higher than the preauction estimate of $1800 to $2500, and still got blown out of the water, hammered at $5500, not including the rest of the fluff.
Not sure why I even bother. Seems to be a waste of time with RIA, as most items seem to hammer at greater than full retail even before any additional fees are accounted for.
That's exactly what happened to me at Julia's. This little Club Gun was in a lot with two other Smith & Wessons. I paid $3500.00 to get it. The other thing that *#%## me off it when they put a desirable C&R gun in with a Modern gun.
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Yes, I've felt the same sentiment you do. If you are going to place multiple guns in a lot, make them all the same—all antique, or all C & R, but don't mix them. Mixing an antique revolver that I want with a C & R has discouraged me from bidding at all on such a lot on several occasions in the past.
I have a very simple solution. If the lot mixes weapons with different legal status, I don't bid on them. I do not have deep enough pockets to pay more for one in fees and aggravation in order to help sell the other less valuable item.
I long for the days of the mom and pop gun shops with ever changing used gun inventories and the occasional phone call of "Hey Cap, I got a gun in that you really need to take a look at."
Auctions aren't for me.
Auctions aren't for me.
I do as well. Those days ended when the internet became prevalent. Gun sales are increasingly uncommonly local and they are more on a national scale.
We used to have a local shop, located inside a Hardware store that had been in business for over 100 years. A group of us would meet on Sat mornings early for breakfast & discussion, then all move to the gun shop. The hardware store opened at 9AM, but the gun shop Mgr opened the door at 8:30 for us. We would all look over what he had taken in trade or on consignment during the week, and quite often a deal or two would be made.
I miss those days.
I miss those days.
I don't have deep pockets but,
I have bid and won with RIA. I have a loss to win rate of about 30 to 1. The one item I won is an outstanding Underwood M1 Carbine. The price was fair after all fees. Yes, RIA attracts bidders who consider thousands as spare change. You can request additional photos and details from RIA and they will provide them. I lost on two lots this week (and my Honey won on those same two lots
), but I enjoyed the gambling like thrill of participating.
I say do the math and bid if you are interested in a lot. Caveat Emptor!
I have bid and won with RIA. I have a loss to win rate of about 30 to 1. The one item I won is an outstanding Underwood M1 Carbine. The price was fair after all fees. Yes, RIA attracts bidders who consider thousands as spare change. You can request additional photos and details from RIA and they will provide them. I lost on two lots this week (and my Honey won on those same two lots
), but I enjoyed the gambling like thrill of participating.I say do the math and bid if you are interested in a lot. Caveat Emptor!
I can't say for certain, but I believe that RIA may intentionally low-ball estimates because they can then say "look how much we got above the estimate!" when the gun sells for a lot over their estimate. I've seen that on a few guns I was thinking of bidding on because I thought their auction estimates were in my ballpark, only to have to guns go for significantly above the high end of the estimate.
That said, I bought a couple of modern guns I wanted as shooters at a decent price from them. You just have to have the buyer's premium in the back of your mind, because you're not paying your bid, you're paying your bid plus the premium, plus the shipping. The key to any auction is to not lose your head and bid out of emotion, unless it's a really rare gun.
depends...
That's a big difference, but the real question is what would it sell for? I understand that $4,500 sounds great, but if someone's only willing to pay $1,000 for it, then it isn't a $4,500 gun. You see stuff like that on GunBroker all the time. Guy says, "well, there's 5 on GB for $XX." OK, are those active listings? If so, how many bids? Better yet, look at the sold prices.
That's a big difference, but the real question is what would it sell for? I understand that $4,500 sounds great, but if someone's only willing to pay $1,000 for it, then it isn't a $4,500 gun. You see stuff like that on GunBroker all the time. Guy says, "well, there's 5 on GB for $XX." OK, are those active listings? If so, how many bids? Better yet, look at the sold prices.
