If you have to ask whether something is dead/gone, then it probably isn't...

Cartridges that should never have been born:


.45 ACP
.357 sig
.40 S&W

All were created to fill an illusory perceived need. None work appreciably better than 9mm.
 
This is the firearms community, nothing ever really dies.

We're still shooting black powder.

Some folks don't trust those finicky "Self Stuffers" and bang away with revolvers.

The .30-30,orgionally a black powder rifle is still popular for hunting

The .30-06 circa 1906 and its kid the .308 circa the 1950s are still popular cartrideges

The 1911 and the 45. acp are still in holster and they brought back the 1903 for a little. bit.

.41 magnum is still a thing.

So to declare a modern cartridge dead is IMHO immature.
 
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Cartridges that should never have been born:


.45 ACP
.357 sig
.40 S&W

All were created to fill an illusory perceived need. None work appreciably better than 9mm.

You are plumb funny...........Research what I've always said about opinions.
Ha Ha Ha. You post will have me chuckling all morning.
 
Cartridges that should never have been born:


.45 ACP
.357 sig
.40 S&W

All were created to fill an illusory perceived need. None work appreciably better than 9mm.

I like the debate about how the 9mm is better due to advanced ammo.

Still can't figure how that can be if you have the exact same ammo for other calibers.

i-3S33Bgp-L.jpg
 
I like the .40, and I've never understood the whole "hate a caliber" thing, which seems to apply to the .40 more than anything else.

My neighbor and shooting buddy is a normally rational person. I knew he was looking for a truck gun, and I came across a pair of unissued SD40VEs for $135 each at a police supply place. I was buying one, and I texted him and asked if he wanted me to pick up the other for him. He texted back: I HATE the .40 - no thanks!

I don't have much use for a .221 Fireball or .41 Rimfire Short, but I don't hate them.

I was there when the .40 was adopted by the FBI, and was one of a dozen firearms instructors from the field called to Quantico to try out all the applicants for a new duty gun, which eventually went to the Glock 22 (I picked the HK USP Compact). I was also there for the change back to the 9mm, right before I retired. I carried a POW Glock 27 as a second gun for about 20 years, and I worked a ton of police shootings where the .40 was used.

That round works well, especially against people in cars. I worked one where a female tribal officer shot a guy through the windshield of his car, because that fellow was shooting a Marlin 30/30 at her partner. That 180 grain HST punched straight through the glass, took a bite out of the steering wheel, and penetrated deep enough in his chest to drop him right there. He was dead and propped in the opened door of the car when I got there.

Would a fancy 9mm bullet have done it the same? Maybe. Maybe not. I know that bullet did fine. When I closed the case and returned her gear she asked if I had the bullet, which I did. I gave it to her and she was tickled pink. Her husband was an Army reservist who had survived an IED attack in Irag and his damaged vest was on display in their house. She bounced that expanded bullet in her hand and said she was going to frame it and hang it next to his vest. That's a warrior culture for you.

I got the rifle out to return it to the tribe on bring your dog to work day. Little Randy was tuckered out.

fXzkzqG.jpg


I just bought a new box of .44 Russians. I bet the .40 will be around a while. I know the current groupthink is all service rounds are the same now. I bet that'll change over time.
 
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I like the debate about how the 9mm is better due to advanced ammo.

Still can't figure how that can be if you have the exact same ammo for other calibers.

i-3S33Bgp-L.jpg

Simple, neither the .40 S&W nor the .45 ACP required any advancement because they were already capable of achieving FBI/IWBA Specifications.

The 9mm Luger on the other hand, required modifications to projectile design in order for it to be able to consistently meet FBI/IWBA Specifications.

No advancements will be made to .40 S&W nor .45 ACP because they aren't necessary, both already perform as well as any handgun cartridge can in their role as duty cartridges, at least within the parameters of modern Ballistics Gel Testing.

That being said, I disagree with the assertion that 9mm Luger is equal to .40 S&W or .45 ACP. While it is true that they perform similarly within the confines of FBI/IWBA Spec Ballistics Gel Testing, Ballistics Gel has it's limitations, and was designed for the specific purpose of being a medium in which consistent, repeatable results could be attained for further analysis. However, it was never designed to be an accurate 1:1 representation of how bullets effect the human body, nor could it considering that the human body is filled with bones, and bones create a variable which renders repeatable results far less likely, especially in individual cases in which differences in density, size, and overall dimensions naturally occur, hence their exclusion in Ballistics Gel Testing.
Unfortunately, there's the rub... Any hunter can tell you that bullets which are greater in mass and weight often result in more dramatic affects against bones. Often causing bones to shatter rather than simply break, and maintaining their trajectory better after they have passed through bones while smaller/lighter bullets often deviate further.

How much of a difference does this make on a human being as opposed to an animal? That I cannot say. However, I recall a certain medical examiner who claimed that in all the autopsies that he had performed, that larger caliber bullets (namely .40 S&W and .45 ACP) yielded substantially more devastating effect on the skeletal structure than 9mm Luger, and subsequently that a lot more bodies came across his autopsy table with .40 S&W or .45 ACP bullets in them than .380 ACP, .38 Special, 9mm Luger, etc. As a footnote, he did say that heavyweight .357 Magnum bullets were also very devastating against bone, but that's he didn't see .357 Magnum nearly as often.
Anyone who wants to read this medical examiner's observations in detail can find them online by searching "Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue" in your search engine of choice.

So yeah, to recap, .40 S&W and .45 ACP have not and will not be improved by advancement in the design of Jacketed Hallow Point bullets because they already perform at optimal efficiency within the parameters of modern Ballistics Gel Testing, but such testing has it's limitations, and was never intended to demonstrate how bullets behave within the human body to begin with.
 
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.40 S&W was one of the most in demand cartridges in my neck of the woods a decade ago. Everyone had to get a .40 cal. Being a stick in the mud, I never did, but that is beside the point because so many people did.
At local gun stores two years ago, there was a glut on the market for .40's There were many more for sale at deep discount prices than were being sold. Tastes changed around here, and the .40 fell out of favor. My LGS had a supply of .40 S&W ammo that sat 100% unsold for three years,
He sold it slowly on a 50% off table to move out old stock. It finally went away at deep discount. Fast forward to today: He is quite sorry he cleared it out, as it is among the most requested cartridge on his not-available list. There are so many .40's sitting in desk drawers and safes that it will not die in the lifetime of my child. When times get tough it is a popular option among many. I never took the plunge and likely never will, but it's here and isn't going away. The demand for its ammunition is evidence of that. Like many things, it may hibernate, but it will be with us for a long, long time.
 
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Another good point: resale value.
I bought my one and only .40 shortly after they first came out. Yep, fell for the hype. .45 power & 9mm capacity! :rolleyes:
Two years later I was sick and tired of the thing and tried to sell it. Hell! I couldn't hardly give the damned thing away! :mad: Nobody and I mean nobody was even slightly interested in it. Except of course super low ball scalpers. I finally managed to trade it off to a local gun shop and took a severe beating on the deal. But I was glad just to be rid of the thing. :mad:
The current big demand for .40 ammo is due to the fact of all the craziness of the last year. First time buyers have been snatching up anything that'll go bang. Many dealers have been plumb giddy over the fact that they finally sold all those forties in their stock that had been collecting dust. Its just a temporary surge and nothing more. :rolleyes:
No, the .40 ain't dead and probably never will be. However, it is slowing slipping into the no longer common, not as popular category.
 
I am sorry, I have ADD, what was this thread about? By the time I got here to post I forgot what the original poster had posted.:confused::D

Maybe it should have been about practicing with what you carry and shoot it will as fast as you can, keeping it in the 10 ring. I must be crazy. When will the next FBI crisis happen to spur the search for the next new wonder caliber.

Wait, I just had a thought, what happened to the 400 Corbon? Is that one going away?:eek::rolleyes:
 
.40S&W is most certainly not dead with me... not only do I enjoy shooting it, its probably my most favorite to load for...

I have more .40 In stock than any other caliber and is shot more than any other as well...

So is the .40S&W dead.... Nahhhh!
 
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I don't have more 40 S&W than my 45ACP but I do have 76 boxes of once fired Federal Champion cases. Yeah, was a time when I shot a LOT of 40 S&W, mostly with my Sig Sauer P239. Now I'm into shooting Skeet so the handguns only come out when I want to check my proficiency with a handgun. Two weeks ago put 100 rounds of 45 ACP and 100 Rounds of 9mm downrange and didn't miss once so I'm good for another 6 months.
 
.45ACP NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN BORN?

I sure hope you meant the Glock. 45GAP

.45 didn't stop Moros any quicker than the .38 did. Some Moros weren't stopped by .30-40 Krag.


.40 doesn't stop crooks any quicker than 9mm did. If Agent Dove had been shooting M882 that day, the bullet would have penetrated another inch and Michael Platt would have been done in seconds, not minutes.

Both. 45 and .40 were solutions to illusory problems.

Meanwhile the rest of the world pegged along just fine with 9mm.
 
.45 didn't stop Moros any quicker than the .38 did. Some Moros weren't stopped by .30-40 Krag.


.40 doesn't stop crooks any quicker than 9mm did. If Agent Dove had been shooting M882 that day, the bullet would have penetrated another inch and Michael Platt would have been done in seconds, not minutes.

Both. 45 and .40 were solutions to illusory problems.

Meanwhile the rest of the world pegged along just fine with 9mm.

I tend to believe that the .38 Colt was given an unjustified bad rap. It was in service during an unusual time when our soldiers faced determined, fanatical foes, armed with fearsome edged weapons. I suspect that if the reign of the .45 service cartridge was stretched into that time, the result wouldn't have been much different; except that it wouldn't have caused as much of a stir. I also find it curious that the U.S. Army didn't adopt improved .38 ammunition to address the problem like the British did with their .455 Manstopper wadcutter cartridge which was probably designed in reponse to reports of failures to stop fanatical tribesmen, armed with large edged weapons, soaking up .455 RNL.

The bottom line is that the .40 is here and I would feel well armed with it and feel the same if armed with a .45 or a 9mm.
 

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