S&W 625-5 Sad Story

[AKtinman]

Here are some photos of the barrel removed from my 625-6, which is now fitted with a Mountain Gun barrel:

I had heard that the rifling in Model 25's in .45 ACP was "shallower" for hardball, but was unaware that this rifling had carried over into the 625's.

Whether this is correct or not, my 625's shoot cast just fine.

 

[Charles]

I think that ALL Smith's rifling since the late '90's or so is of the shallower type. If you reload or cast, it's just a matter of matching alloy hardness, proper diameter, and appropriate pressure/velocity, same as it's always been.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Charles-

In about late '94 S&W switched to EDM type rifling. It isn't realy any shallower, it is different in that the edges of the lands are slightly rounded, especially in relationship to the older cut rifling.

25-2's for sure, had shallower rifling than other S&W's, and came in a 6 groove configuration as opposed to the standard 5 groove of most S&W's. I don't own a 625, but I have read many time that they have the shallow rifling as well. Maybe someone who has both can speak up here and set the record straight.

Cast bullets will shoot fine in shallow rifling, IF they are cast fairly hard so they can hold the rifling and not skid, ruining accuracy and causing leading.

 

[Charles]

G4F, that (EDM rifling) is what I was thinking of. Didn't know about the 6 grooves on the 25-2's. Thanks for that little bit of info!

The barrel in AKtinman's post above looks like it has 6, and my 3 .45 Colt 625's all have 5, so there definitely appears to be a difference between LC and ACP.

I will say that my 2 post-'94 Mountain Guns (-6 and -7) definitely look like they have shallower rifling than my 625-5 Classic, but all 3 shoot plain-based wheelweight bullets (RCBS 270SAA mould) really well on top of an appropriate charge of 2400.

I wonder if some of the inaccuracy and leading folks experience with lead in .45acp could be traced to using bevel-based designs and/or .451" diameter bullets.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

I wonder if some of the inaccuracy and leading folks experience with lead in .45acp could be traced to using bevel-based designs and/or .451" diameter bullets.

I think the bevel based designs are a big part of the problem. While they are easy to seat, they allow gasses to get up around the side of the bullet and cause at least some leading. I know what you mean about the EDM rifling looking shallower, but I don't think it is. I think it looks like that due the the rounded edges of the lands, but who knows, maybe it is a bit shallower.

 

[BUFF]

Steve:

That repaired sixgun is pretty uniquely configured. Depending on what a 5 inch barrel costs, and if the lack of originality bothers you enough, you may be further ahead selling your now-4 inch gun and buying another 5 incher. They do turn up on occasion.

 

[Sportsterguy]

Sorry for your loss. If you decide to sell the new model please let me know as I have a bud who would love one.

 

[tdan]

Gun for fun.............I had to take a look at the rifling on the barrels of a couple of my 625's to see if I could discern any difference. I compared my 625-5 45Colt to a 625-4 45ACP. The grooves are noticeably wider on the 45Colt barrel. I didn't bother to compare twist rates. That said, the 255gr. LSWC's sized at .452, that is my standard bullet for my 625-5 Classic, shoots very accurately in the 625-4 loaded into AR cases. In fact, that gun shoots leads in .451 or .452 extremely well. I have never tried a lead sized in .451 in the 45Colt.

I don't know if the original poster loads for 45ACP, but he may want to try a 45Colt load with a 200gr. SWC that is standard fare for 45ACP. Taper crimp it at .470 with a 45ACP crimp die. That new 4" barrel may be a super shooter.

I know what the OP means about the roll marks on the latest barrels. They are WAY TOO BIG! Perhaps Smith thinks that the only folks buying wheelguns these days are us older folks with reading glasses. What is really tacky is the barrels that are lasered on one side and roll marked on the other.

 

[Joni_Lynn]

I have one of the 625 Classic's in 45 Colt and I'd be ill if that happened to mine. However if it did happen I'd either have a 5" 629 Classic barrel rebored/rifled or have a 5" 45acp 625 barrel installed and then somehow match the level of finish. My 625-3 in 45acp shoots all kinds of lead bullets quite well. When I think of how much more $$$$ I have in 1911's to get them to shoot as well as the 625-3 I wonder what mental disorder I acquired that gave me the 1911/accuracy addiction.

 

[Allen-frame]

A lot of good information in this thread.

Just bumping it up for anyone interested in 625s' and their construction.

 

[Doug M.]

Wow. I'd have been all over the idea of a 4" MG barrel on that gun. That would be unique, or nearly so, and a much more useful revolver. I hate the full lug barrels with a passion. Ugly and annoying. I had one revolver with one (a 5" 625-6 Lew Horton) that got stolen, and I miss it. That's the only one I would not consider changing the barrel on, because it was so well built.

 

[wng-2]

I bought this 625-5 in .45 Colt back in '94 brand new. It was one of my favorite Smiths. The 5" barrel was just the right length, the gun balanced well, and was a pleasure to shoot. On top of it all, it was in .45 Colt. The gun has an "SDS" serial number, which meant it was a stocking dealer special. Not too many of them made from what I understand, and they only went to the larger S&W dealers at the time.
Anyway, the sad part of the story. I was shooting the gun a while back, and all was going well. Shooting at 25 yards, the gun was grouping as well as I could shoot it. I took a few shots on a new target and didn't even hit the paper. Took a few more shots and still not on the paper. My first thought was that the rear sight had gotten loose, and so I checked and everything was tight. Nothing seemed wrong, so I took one more shot. Still not on the paper. It turned out that the barrel cracked right at the frame. It did not split lengthwise at the forcing cone, but broke almost all of the way through just in front of the threads. The barrel was skewed off to the right, and I believe that one more shot would have blown the barrel clear off the frame.....I was able to unscrew the by a few threads to take these pictures.
So...after the shock wore off, I contacted S&W and told them what happened. They asked that the gun be returned to them for warranty repair.
Long story short, S&W fixed the gun no charge...Except, they didn't have any barrels like the one that came with the gun. All they had was a 4" barrel, or one of the new (ugly) mountain gun barrels. I had no choice but to have the 4" barrel installed. On top of it all, I asked Smith to return the original barrel to me. They assured me that they would, but I never got it back. It turns out that their policy is not to return old parts from a warranty repair....
Now, I'm looking for an original style barrel to put back on this gun. It's a 5" full underlug s.s. barrel with laser engraving on both sides. Left side of barrel has "Smith & Wesson" and "45 Colt" and right side has "625 Classic".
It also has the interchangeable front sight.
If anyone knows where I may be able to find a barrel like this, I would appreciate it. My searches so far haven't turned up anything. Thanks for reading this long post,
Steve

Did you ever find out why it failed? I bought the identical gun today. # 366. It's a sweet shooter. But now I am wondering if I should shoot it?....

 

[murphydog]

Did you ever find out why it failed? I bought the identical gun today. # 366. It's a sweet shooter. But now I am wondering if I should shoot it?....

The OP just passed his seven year anniversary - of absence from the Forum. Probably best to start a new thread for other opinions.

 

[wng-2]

The OP just passed his seven year anniversary - of absence from the Forum. Probably best to start a new thread for other opinions.

Thanks, I bought the gun yesterday, and was actually on the Internet searching for a holster, and bumped into that thread. I really like the gun. I was wondering if that failure was a one off, or if it happened to others as well....

 

[ken158]

I would keep the gun as is since it is unique and factory and just buy another 5" if you miss that model so much.

 

[452x6]

I have a friend who has had an SDS 625-5 Classic for a long time and has shot it quite a bit. He hasn't had any problem at all. I believe if barrels were routinely popping off of guns it would get a lot more press than this old thread. The truth is that any mechanical item can fail in a variety of ways due to a manufacturer defect or mistreatment.

One thing you do need to be aware of regarding any S&W 45 Colt revolver is that there are multiple power levels of 45 Colt ammunition available (as well as reloading recommendations). Stay away from any load labelled as "Ruger Only". While a load like that probably wouldn't flat out blow up your S&W 625, it is a lot of stress on it mostly due to the thin spot in the cylinder at the bolt notch. Due to the large case size of the 45 it is considered the weak point for the 45 caliber S&W N frame. The 44 is enough smaller cartridge that it allows 44 magnum pressure to be safe in essentially the same gun. The 45 Colt S&W is definitely not weak, but not as strong as a heavily built single action revolver.

BTW, There were only something like 1550 of the 625-5 Classic guns made so it is a bit rare and is highly regarded.

 

[wng-2]

I have a friend who has had an SDS 625-5 Classic for a long time and has shot it quite a bit. He hasn't had any problem at all. I believe if barrels were routinely popping off of guns it would get a lot more press than this old thread. The truth is that any mechanical item can fail in a variety of ways due to a manufacturer defect or mistreatment.

One thing you do need to be aware of regarding any S&W 45 Colt revolver is that there are multiple power levels of 45 Colt ammunition available (as well as reloading recommendations). Stay away from any load labelled as "Ruger Only". While a load like that probably wouldn't flat out blow up your S&W 625, it is a lot of stress on it mostly due to the thin spot in the cylinder at the bolt notch. Due to the large case size of the 45 it is considered the weak point for the 45 caliber S&W N frame. The 44 is enough smaller cartridge that it allows 44 magnum pressure to be safe in essentially the same gun. The 45 Colt S&W is definitely not weak, but not as strong as a heavily built single action revolver.

BTW, There were only something like 1550 of the 625-5 Classic guns made so it is a bit rare and is highly regarded.

Thanks, great information. I reload for .45 Colt, so I can do accordingly. It's a sweet shooter being as heavy as it is. It would be a shame to not shoot it.

 

[ddixie884]

I'm probably the only one, but I like the 4" 625s better than the 5".................

 

[HamHands]

I love this place

I've ordered Smith and Wesson and Mossberg surplus parts and Numrich had the best shape OEM parts. A walnut stock set needed no sanding or refinishing to complete a WWII style 12-Gauge trench-gun clone that is just beautiful.

Numrich bought out most Smith's vintage parts deemed vintage parts that likely wouldn't be needed for servicing such as all 3rd gen Smith semi-auto's, etc...

 

[ddixie884]

My .45 Colt M-625-5 Mountain Gun

I am so glad everyone is safe and that S&W made it all right.

But I almost stopped reading when he said ugly mountain gun barrel.

Is one of my favorite S&Ws and really shines with 250 to 260 SWCs and JHPs on 9gr of Unique or Universal or 18gr 2400. Of course a lot of my shooting is done with lighter powder charges but full weight bullets. 230 and up...........