Tale of 2 Airweight J Frames

[eb07]

So I have two modern manufacture NO LOCK J frames.


A 442 (CYC) and a 642 (DLD) purchased a few years apart. 04/2016 and and 06/2019



I had the 442 worked over by Nelson Ford in 2016 and it has been my carry on and off sharing time with the 19 and bulldog. It has close to 1500 rounds through it.



The 642 I had done by Nelson Ford a month ago. Has 4-500 rounds through it.



They are both great but the 442 is tight while the 642 groupings are a little spread out. and puts them a little left.


I use 135gr speer gold dot +P factory ammo and I train with either 135gr speer gold dot reloads to similar velocity or 130 gr jacketed or lead round nose at the same velocity.

Here is a 10 yard grouping of both. One handed.
442 top 642 bottom.

While that is perfectly acceptable I still carry the 442 because of the tighter groupings. The 442 is wearing a lot from being carried while riding mountainbikes, running, and other activities in an ankle holster that just didn't fit it right which I have changed out. I would like to carry the 642 when I am in wetter climates to protect from corrosion but the groupings make me take pause. Am I being OCD?

 

[Old cop]

In a real self defense confrontation this difference is not enough to make a difference, and I speak from experience.

 

[326MOD10]

For a CQB intended handgun I would be very satisfied with either of those groups at 10 yards.

 

[runwiththeherd]

The 442 certainty shows "character" but it has been taken care of. No rust on the barrel, trigger or cylinder is proof of that. I would keep carrying it. I agree-the difference in grouping won't matter when it counts. Think of it as left or right ventricle!

 

[Lobster Picnic]

Get the 442 hard-chromed or cera-coated and keep the 642 as a backup.

 

[Rpg]

I’m not impressed by the apparent group differences at 10 yards.

Back up to 25 yards and shoot groups from a rest: shooting groups off hand with one hand isn’t a good way to assess the inherent accuracy of your guns. Neither is close range shooting.

 

[Pef]

If you are a cool enough cucumber to choose shots on either the left or right ventricle under duress, carry the 442. If, on the other hand, you are a mere mortal like the rest of us, it won't matter when you are under duress.

Besides, the wear on the 442 looks good.

 

[eb07]

I’m not impressed by the apparent group differences at 10 yards.

Back up to 25 yards and shoot groups from a rest: shooting groups off hand with one hand isn’t a good way to assess the inherent accuracy of your guns. Neither is close range shooting.

Good point I will work on that this weekend.

 

[SS336]

Very nice shooting, especially one handed with an Airweight.
Don’t think I have ever tried shooting my 649 one handed, maybe I better.

 

[diyj98]

I’m not impressed by the apparent group differences at 10 yards.

Back up to 25 yards and shoot groups from a rest: shooting groups off hand with one hand isn’t a good way to assess the inherent accuracy of your guns. Neither is close range shooting.

I agree 100%. I see on so many forums guys posting photos of groups shot at 10 yards or often less, and talking about how good their gun shoots.

 

[VictorLouis]

First off, congrats on dealing with Nelson. He's got a sign in his foyer which says he will no longer work on sub-compact 1911's,

... consider a S&W J-frame...

Have you tried other loads to see if the 442 remains consistently more accurate? I bet the other gun may prefer another brand. Justa thought.

 

[rockquarry]

I’m not impressed by the apparent group differences at 10 yards.

Back up to 25 yards and shoot groups from a rest: shooting groups off hand with one hand isn’t a good way to assess the inherent accuracy of your guns. Neither is close range shooting.

Best advice for finding out which ammo does best in your gun. Then do some offhand shooting. Most of these guns are capable of good 25 yard accuracy, but most shooters aren't. Takes lots of practice. An unskilled shooter is an expert at close distances and even poor ammo shoots accurately at fifteen yards or less. You really don't learn much or improve skills with close-up shooting. Once you master 25 yards, up close becomes incredibly easy.

I've had many J-frames in various configurations over many years and can really see no difference in any of them except that a lightweight kicks a little harder than an all steel gun.

 

[eb07]

Best advice for finding out which ammo does best in your gun. Then do some offhand shooting. Most of these guns are capable of good 25 yard accuracy, but most shooters aren't. Takes lots of practice. An unskilled shooter is an expert at close distances and even poor ammo shoots accurately at fifteen yards or less. You really don't learn much or improve skills with close-up shooting. Once you master 25 yards, up close becomes incredibly easy.

I've had many J-frames in various configurations over many years and can really see no difference in any of them except that a lightweight kicks a little harder than an all steel gun.

I have zero issue shooting at 25 and 50 yards off hand with my revolvers


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hQRL-YtqrE[/ame]


Or making head and body shots with a snub at 25 yards without a rest






Seeing as the range is my desert 10 minutes from my home with no ridiculous rules or ridiculously unsafe people around that require those rules, the friends and family do more combat shooting out here, moving, etc. I am not much for benches. I won't have time to bench rest in an self defense situation.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

I would concur: the difference displayed by those two target are way, WAY within the ol' "minute of bad guy" standard...? Certainly nothing there to be depressed about!

Cheers!

P.S. For extreme corrosion resistance there's always a SS J-frame to consider. For the cost today of hard chroming (especially on an alloy frame) you can just about buy another 442 (sans lock, of course!).

P.P.S. A visit to a refinishing site (Mahovsky's) that has an extensive display of their recent work showed only one J-frame and that was for a hard chrome finish on the cylinder and trigger ONLY of an Airweight.

 

[rockquarry]

I have zero issue shooting at 25 and 50 yards off hand with my revolvers


LongRangePistol - YouTube


Or making head and body shots with a snub at 25 yards without a rest

Good for you! That's the way it should be done, but if you read this forum regularly, you can easily tell that very few shoot at 25 yards, let alone beyond. Many think a J-frame snubnose is only good when distances are very short.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

There's still the sticky issue of whether shooting at 25 yards is actually defensive...?

Unless, of course, you are returning fire!

Cheers!

 

[crazyphil]

If while carrying either the 442 or the 642, and you have to shoot in self
defense, it is almost certain to be from a distance of 9 feet or less.
Either pattern is plenty accurate for that range. I say give the 642 equal time.

BTW here is a picture of my 642-1 on a new VAM that I just received
from Ken Null. I practiced the quick draw, with that pull through snap,
a dozen times yesterday and again today. It performed flawlessly.

 

[rockquarry]

There's still the sticky issue of whether shooting at 25 yards is actually defensive...?

Unless, of course, you are returning fire!

Cheers!

It's not a sticky issue at all. I was avoiding mention of gunfighting as some use these guns to shoot real paper bullseye targets and learn good shooting technique along the way. Granted, many J-frame guns are used for defensive purposes, but they work well for shooting enjoyment also, something that has been largely lost in this age of concealed carry.

Practicing at 25 yards forces one to develop shooting skill if he wants to hit the target consistently. As mentioned in an earlier post, once skills are developed at distance, closeup shooting also improves and becomes far easier. The reverse is seldom true unless you are an incredibly gifted shooter. Few of us are.

 

[EMS6260]

That’s better shooting than 75% of the cops I qualified with -
At lesser distances.

Don’t worry about it.

 

[scottcolbath]

I recently picked up a 642 for my girlfriend, and didn't even fire it, and dropped it off with Nelson for some work. He's been my guy for more than 20 years. He does excellent work.

Nelson showed me the target he tested the gun with and it was also shooting to the left. I took it to the range, and I was also shooting left. But I wasn't shooting at 30 feet. Christ, the idea of grouping as tight as the OP at 30 feet is something I can only dream of.

Anyway, as with most guns, they are way more accurate than I will ever be.

A pic of the addition to the girlfriend's purse.