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Questions answered, thanks.....
Looking forward to getting my Ultimate J frame..
Looking forward to getting my Ultimate J frame..
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S&W Ultimate Carry J Frame 432
- Thread starter T. McIntyre
- Start date
OP
T. McIntyre
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350 rounds of 100 grain wadcutters through the Lipsey's 432UC!
Friends,
Today I went out to do some more T&E on a .45 ACP 250 grain Poly Coat +P load I have been working on. Absolute Hammer!
It has been running like a sewing machine through the Gen 5 G21. I took along an S&W 4506, as well as an H&K USP to use those as test beds and get velocity numbers.
The G21 is the clear favorite just as far as shooting comfort and ease of making fast hit BTW, but that is for another thread.
Anyways, while I was out, I ran 100 rounds through the Lipsey's 432UC.
I was shooting the same ammo as before. The 100 grain Lost River Ammunition Company poly coat wadcutters.
Such a great little gun. Finally got the sights centered to when I want them.
At 10 yards I was putting them right above the green dot. It is clear these sights are oriented for closer range defense type shooting, which is perfect for thi style gun. My 50+ year old eyes are not doing the gun justice when it comes to the gun/ammo combo and true mechanical accuracy combination potential.
I fired my first 12 and knew I had the sights right where I needed them in terms of windage adjustment.
Then I fired the rest for a total of 30 rounds. This was offhand at 10 yards.
Next I backed off to 25 yards to see how I would do. This is where it was obvious that my eyes are struggling with the irons. I was having a hard time getting a crisp picture. This is really where red dot sights and even laser grips have a pretty notable advantage if the conditions are right for them.
It was obvious (to me) that the gun and ammo is capable of far better. I was definitely limiting the performance here. Normally with an RDO on a revolver and sandbagged it is pretty easy to shoot little groups, but I was struggling. I know this gun is capable of much better. It shoot well, but I know a person who can see those iron sights clearly like I did in my 20s would have shot a much tighter group.
More to follow...
Friends,
Today I went out to do some more T&E on a .45 ACP 250 grain Poly Coat +P load I have been working on. Absolute Hammer!
It has been running like a sewing machine through the Gen 5 G21. I took along an S&W 4506, as well as an H&K USP to use those as test beds and get velocity numbers.
The G21 is the clear favorite just as far as shooting comfort and ease of making fast hit BTW, but that is for another thread.
Anyways, while I was out, I ran 100 rounds through the Lipsey's 432UC.
I was shooting the same ammo as before. The 100 grain Lost River Ammunition Company poly coat wadcutters.
Such a great little gun. Finally got the sights centered to when I want them.
At 10 yards I was putting them right above the green dot. It is clear these sights are oriented for closer range defense type shooting, which is perfect for thi style gun. My 50+ year old eyes are not doing the gun justice when it comes to the gun/ammo combo and true mechanical accuracy combination potential.
I fired my first 12 and knew I had the sights right where I needed them in terms of windage adjustment.
Then I fired the rest for a total of 30 rounds. This was offhand at 10 yards.
Next I backed off to 25 yards to see how I would do. This is where it was obvious that my eyes are struggling with the irons. I was having a hard time getting a crisp picture. This is really where red dot sights and even laser grips have a pretty notable advantage if the conditions are right for them.
It was obvious (to me) that the gun and ammo is capable of far better. I was definitely limiting the performance here. Normally with an RDO on a revolver and sandbagged it is pretty easy to shoot little groups, but I was struggling. I know this gun is capable of much better. It shoot well, but I know a person who can see those iron sights clearly like I did in my 20s would have shot a much tighter group.
More to follow...
OP
T. McIntyre
Member
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- 301
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- 931
With 60 rounds down, and 40 to go, I brought it in closer.
I practiced between 3, 5 and 7 yards.
I shot both hands, strong and wrong hand only.
40 rounds into the head box.
At such close range, the gun was extremely easy to shoot a ragged hole for the most part.
That brought me to 100 rounds.
I did note that the trigger has lightened up. I don't have a trigger gauge, but it feels lighter than when it started by at least a couple pounds. It was already smooth, and now is just a bit smoother. Simply a great action on the gun. Extremely hard not to like.
With 350 rounds through the gun, I would say it is starting to break in nicely.
On an interesting note.
When I was done shooting, I noted how quite clean the gun was. If I had been shooting regular lead, there was no doubt, I would have had to of been breaking out the toothbrush and scrubbing on the gun. But the 432 is quite clean thanks to the poly coat projectiles. They are really hard to beat.
This is after 100 rounds.
All for now.
I practiced between 3, 5 and 7 yards.
I shot both hands, strong and wrong hand only.
40 rounds into the head box.
At such close range, the gun was extremely easy to shoot a ragged hole for the most part.
That brought me to 100 rounds.
I did note that the trigger has lightened up. I don't have a trigger gauge, but it feels lighter than when it started by at least a couple pounds. It was already smooth, and now is just a bit smoother. Simply a great action on the gun. Extremely hard not to like.
With 350 rounds through the gun, I would say it is starting to break in nicely.
On an interesting note.
When I was done shooting, I noted how quite clean the gun was. If I had been shooting regular lead, there was no doubt, I would have had to of been breaking out the toothbrush and scrubbing on the gun. But the 432 is quite clean thanks to the poly coat projectiles. They are really hard to beat.
This is after 100 rounds.
All for now.
Piwo
Member
Good shooting. Especially at 25 yards, benched or not. The 32 snub is a close range defense gun. The accuracy and reduced recoil mated to an airweight revolver are it's primary advantages. I know of many elderly people, smaller people, and infirm people that cannot handle a 38 snub recoil. Some of them have gone to .22s or 25s. They now have a far more effective and reliable option. Thanks for your excellent review.
OP
T. McIntyre
Member
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- Feb 10, 2004
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- 301
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50 yard shooting Lipsey's 432 UC .32 H&R Lost River 100 Grain Poly Coat wadcutters
Friends,
I went out yesterday and got in some more shooting. Had to test some more of the heavy .45 ACP +P 250 grain poly coat loads I have been working on, so I figured that it was a great opportunity to shoot the 432 as well.
There have been a couple people that I have read their posts out on the interwebs who wondered how it would perform at 50 yards. So I figured I would take this opportunity to give it a shot. I set up my bags across the tailgate of my old Land Cruiser. Then I walked the target out along with my laser rangefinder and set it at 50 yards.
Here were the results of the first 6 shots at 50 yards:
I had used an old IDPA target that I shot on previously so I just stuck the big white paper over the holes. As you can see it hit pretty well centered, with one a bit higher up and one low and left. The one low and left immediately made me start questioning things. "Did I do that, is it a gun thing, such as one chamber slightly off?", etc. However, knowing how it had shot the previous 350 rounds I highly doubted it was a gun issue and like 99% of the time, it was likely shooter error.
For the ADD-ADHD crowd, I will skip ahead on this one. It was me. I suck.
So I pasted some dots over the holes and fired another 6 shots.
5 out of 6 pretty darn close, and one a bit high. I will take that group. Overall I was dang happy so far.
Next I fired another 6, but before I get to that I will tell you about a conversation I had with someone a couple days ago. It had been mentioned that just slight changes in how a person grips a gun can have a pretty significant change in the point of impact of the projectiles. They were spot on, in that observation. As strange as this sounds, when I am shooting groups with a DA revolver, especially standing, I will often shoot the gun all double action. Most people find that to be odd. But the thing is that you can pick up most DA/SA revolvers and cock the hammer back and fire it, all while holding it in a variety of ways. It is substantially harder to do that in DA mode due to the long trigger reach. It forces you to hold the gun very consistently each time, with it perfectly in line with the bones in your forearm. When I shoot long range with my Smith revolvers, I do it almost exclusively DA.
Back to the shooting of the 432UC. I decided to grip the gun differently (choking up a bit higher) and removed the soft cushion that I had underneath my hands. As it ended up, the gun was bouncing a good bit more. The results were very telling. At 3-7 yards you may not be able to tell much. At 50 yards is was dramatically different.
I got a bit ahead of myself and taped the target before I took a pic. But the orange stickers are from where I had gripped the gun differently. The wind had picked up and a couple of my blue stickers had blown off.
You will note that there are only 5 orange stickers. I think I pasted one of the last six shot string with a blue dot. But regardless, you can see how just changing your grip, and not having a proper rest can cause a rather significant change, both in group size, but also in point of impact.
More to follow..
Friends,
I went out yesterday and got in some more shooting. Had to test some more of the heavy .45 ACP +P 250 grain poly coat loads I have been working on, so I figured that it was a great opportunity to shoot the 432 as well.
There have been a couple people that I have read their posts out on the interwebs who wondered how it would perform at 50 yards. So I figured I would take this opportunity to give it a shot. I set up my bags across the tailgate of my old Land Cruiser. Then I walked the target out along with my laser rangefinder and set it at 50 yards.
Here were the results of the first 6 shots at 50 yards:
I had used an old IDPA target that I shot on previously so I just stuck the big white paper over the holes. As you can see it hit pretty well centered, with one a bit higher up and one low and left. The one low and left immediately made me start questioning things. "Did I do that, is it a gun thing, such as one chamber slightly off?", etc. However, knowing how it had shot the previous 350 rounds I highly doubted it was a gun issue and like 99% of the time, it was likely shooter error.
For the ADD-ADHD crowd, I will skip ahead on this one. It was me. I suck.
So I pasted some dots over the holes and fired another 6 shots.
5 out of 6 pretty darn close, and one a bit high. I will take that group. Overall I was dang happy so far.
Next I fired another 6, but before I get to that I will tell you about a conversation I had with someone a couple days ago. It had been mentioned that just slight changes in how a person grips a gun can have a pretty significant change in the point of impact of the projectiles. They were spot on, in that observation. As strange as this sounds, when I am shooting groups with a DA revolver, especially standing, I will often shoot the gun all double action. Most people find that to be odd. But the thing is that you can pick up most DA/SA revolvers and cock the hammer back and fire it, all while holding it in a variety of ways. It is substantially harder to do that in DA mode due to the long trigger reach. It forces you to hold the gun very consistently each time, with it perfectly in line with the bones in your forearm. When I shoot long range with my Smith revolvers, I do it almost exclusively DA.
Back to the shooting of the 432UC. I decided to grip the gun differently (choking up a bit higher) and removed the soft cushion that I had underneath my hands. As it ended up, the gun was bouncing a good bit more. The results were very telling. At 3-7 yards you may not be able to tell much. At 50 yards is was dramatically different.
I got a bit ahead of myself and taped the target before I took a pic. But the orange stickers are from where I had gripped the gun differently. The wind had picked up and a couple of my blue stickers had blown off.
You will note that there are only 5 orange stickers. I think I pasted one of the last six shot string with a blue dot. But regardless, you can see how just changing your grip, and not having a proper rest can cause a rather significant change, both in group size, but also in point of impact.
More to follow..
OP
T. McIntyre
Member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2004
- Messages
- 301
- Reaction score
- 931
Now that I knew I was on target and knew how to hold the gun to get the best results I fired and emptied the gun three different times before I walked down to the target. In spite of the fact that I struggled a little with keeping the front sight in focus, the Lipsey's 432UC really put the wadcutters right where they needed to be.
This gun just puts them right in there. The sights are exceptional. For a gun that is intended to be used in the role this one was designed for, one could not ask for anything better.
As mentioned earlier, I have been working on a .45 ACP +P 250 grain Poly Coat load. I had the G21.5 that is topped with the CH Duty enclosed emitter RDO as well as 5" Colt and 4.25" Colt 1911s, and a 4506, as well as an HK USP. In between shooting those I fired the 432 at a few different targets. I did not quite get to 100 rounds. I fired a total of 80 rounds. Was trying for 100, so as to makes things simple an easy to track, but it just did not happen, as I had kids to pick up. You know, that life stuff that pops up.
So right now the round count sits at 430 rds.
Loving the gun and now I know that with the 100 grain poly coat wadcutters, I can shoot out to 50 yards and be on the money.
This gun just puts them right in there. The sights are exceptional. For a gun that is intended to be used in the role this one was designed for, one could not ask for anything better.
As mentioned earlier, I have been working on a .45 ACP +P 250 grain Poly Coat load. I had the G21.5 that is topped with the CH Duty enclosed emitter RDO as well as 5" Colt and 4.25" Colt 1911s, and a 4506, as well as an HK USP. In between shooting those I fired the 432 at a few different targets. I did not quite get to 100 rounds. I fired a total of 80 rounds. Was trying for 100, so as to makes things simple an easy to track, but it just did not happen, as I had kids to pick up. You know, that life stuff that pops up.
So right now the round count sits at 430 rds.
Loving the gun and now I know that with the 100 grain poly coat wadcutters, I can shoot out to 50 yards and be on the money.
FWIW, my 642UC's trigger weighed in at 10 lbs, 6 oz on my digital Wheeler trigger pull gauge, and after ~125 rounds, quite a few dry fire pulls, and oiling the internals, it's now measuring 9 lbs, 15 oz. If I didn't have to send it off to S&W to replace the dead tritium sight, I'd pull it apart and polish it.
I got to handle a Model 60 no dash back-to-back with it, and the Model 60 owner and I both agreed that the 642UC's DA trigger was superior.
ACORN
Member
Sounds like a win/win. Cute little girl.
The roadblock to a comeback for 32 H&R is the original H&R guns that were not very robust. So the SAAMI specs for the load are pretty weak - probably what a 32 Long +P would be if there were such a thing (which there won't be, from the major ammo factories, again because of the old weak guns out there that can't take the extra pressure.)
Buffalo Bore offers a 32 H&R load with a 100g JHP that (slightly) exceeds 38 Special +P energies (same chrono, same day out of 2" J frames - and BTW, they kick the same, but you do get an extra round with the 32.) But the BB boxes are clearly marked "Not for use in H&R revolvers" or some such. Something I don't recall ever seeing on Winchester or Federal ammo boxes, and something I doubt they would be willing to do for 32 H&R.
I think the wimpiness of the industry specs for the 32 H&R was the reason for the 327 Federal, which in its 100g fire breathing dragon versions from Speer and Federal is up in low 357 Magnum energy territory (and, surprise surprise, kicks like it too.)
Sistema1927
US Veteran
Just picked up mine. I went into the store to pick up a shotgun that I had ordered, and asked my dealer when he expected the one I ordered to come in. He said that it was already there, and that he had called me a couple of days ago. Said that if I didn't come in soon that it would go to the next guy on the waiting list.
$668 + tax.
I already have some Buffalo Bore, about 150 rounds of other HP ammo, and components for .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R, and .327. (Yes, I like the .32's.)
$668 + tax.
I already have some Buffalo Bore, about 150 rounds of other HP ammo, and components for .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R, and .327. (Yes, I like the .32's.)
Triggernosis
Member
I believe I will get one too, if I can find one. I'm hoping that S&W will make enough of these for Lipsey's that they don't become scarce.
A Lipsey's rep said in a Primary & Secondary podcast that they ordered a second batch after the positive reception at SHOT Show. The initial order was 1,000 of each of the 4 models. They'll keep ordering them from S&W so long as dealers keep ordering them from Lipsey's.
If there's one revolver that S&W is set up to crank out in continuous volume, it's aluminum J-frames.
If there's one revolver that S&W is set up to crank out in continuous volume, it's aluminum J-frames.
Mountain Man
Member
That's good to hear. Might make a resurgence in 32H&R ammo production.
Sistema1927
US Veteran
I paid $668 + tax for mine yesterday.
These are looking pretty good!
I can endorse the sights since they're similar to my 640 Pro! I'd definitely take them over the standard configuration and I also like the fully protected ejector rod.
Now to decide if I get a 442 UC or a 340 M&P on my next gun in the coming months... choices, choices...
I can endorse the sights since they're similar to my 640 Pro! I'd definitely take them over the standard configuration and I also like the fully protected ejector rod.
Now to decide if I get a 442 UC or a 340 M&P on my next gun in the coming months... choices, choices...
Depends on how much you like the rear sight, extra ounces, and the currently exclusive grips on the UC models.
Or if you've got wrists of steel and don't mind shooting .357 Magnum out of a sub-14 oz scandium gun. If you're a big pocket carry guy, a ditch rear sight may be more ideal for you.
I was leaning towards buying an M&P 340 while the rebates were going, but then I stumbled in to a 642UC at MSRP. Even without the rebate, I'd buy an M&P 340 before I paid a markup on a UC. I've seen M&P 340s under $800, pretty close to the MSRPs of the UC.
Thank you and I agree with this assessment.
The grips don't do anything for me, really. I like my Houge G10s plenty and they fit well, including with exposed backstrap. Big grips on a pocket gun just don't help me much.
I realistically probably won't be capping off 357s in an SC model, but I just like to have the option there. Theoretically, they should be stronger with the SC in them and be fine with 38s or 38+P for the life of the gun is my thinking.
I had a 642 years ago. Nice and easy to carry, just didn't care for it much, and have never been a fan myself of the exposed ejector rod. This is why I like the M&P 340 and the new UC models. They got the right mods I'd look for, in a lighter weight piece.
The rebates are nice, but it's only $50 on J Frames, regardless of the cost, so I was gonna be safe and wait and handle some bills first... gotta love our roaring current economy...
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Sistema1927
US Veteran
I have heard some mention the S&W rebate, but it appears that the UC models are excluded. At least neither the SKU nor the model numbers are listed in the eligible models.
pokey074
Member
Yup. They rejected my rebate submission.
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