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Doc don't play. Nice goose egg. Machine gun Kelly trial.
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.357 Magnum REG 657 Update
- Thread starter DARE
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About 16:38 you can see JC "Doc" White guarding Machine gun Kelly at his trial. Doc made the movies
mahine gun kelly trial - Bing video
mahine gun kelly trial - Bing video
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Well, Kelly was 1933, before Doc got his Reg Mag. Use as a club might explain how his RM got out of time later 
Great gun and history!
Great gun and history!
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Doc is believed to carry a Colt around this time.
Public Enemies, Bryan Burrough
Public Enemies, Bryan Burrough
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Doc is believed to carry a Colt around this time.
Public Enemies, Bryan Burrough
Gen George Patton favored his 45 Colt as well, but every so often would carry his 357 Reg Magnum in combat. Maybe White did too.
bigwheelzip
Absent Comrade
Considering James' history of armed conflict, it doesn't surprise me he'd bet his life on the best gun he could get his hands on. I hope you get some more positive provenance that it was his. Would really add to it's special aura.
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Hill536
Member
Just as an FYI the Bureau of Investigation was formed in 1908 and J. Edgar Hoover became its Director in 1924 and it's "Agents" did not have authority to make arrests or carry weapons.
In 1934 Congress enacted the Bank Robbery Act and other crime bills giving the FBI powers of arrest and the right to carry firearms.
Previous to that, special agents could only make a "citizen's arrest," otherwise the agent had to call on a U.S. Marshal or local police officer to take custody of a suspect.
This is a terrific thread with bunches of info on the RM and it's owner(s).
In 1934 Congress enacted the Bank Robbery Act and other crime bills giving the FBI powers of arrest and the right to carry firearms.
Previous to that, special agents could only make a "citizen's arrest," otherwise the agent had to call on a U.S. Marshal or local police officer to take custody of a suspect.
This is a terrific thread with bunches of info on the RM and it's owner(s).
S&W SS Revolvers
Member
You all come up with the most interesting things to read, study and ponder. Absolutely incredible! Thank you very much.
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DGNY
Member
Perhaps:
TSHA | Toepperwein, Adolph [Ad]
TSHA | Toepperwein, Adolph [Ad]
OP
Documents
Two more documents from S&WHF. 1st is Potchernick's order for two .357 magnums. 2nd is S&W order form for Reg #657. No signature on that one.
Two more documents from S&WHF. 1st is Potchernick's order for two .357 magnums. 2nd is S&W order form for Reg #657. No signature on that one.
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The S&W order form was filled out by the company after the order from Potchernick's was received. This was common practice unless the order form was received from the customer.
Bill Cross
Bill Cross
Admin Edit-
Terry,
Thanks for posting these upright. I scarfed up the code and moved it to the original post above.
Regards,
Lee J
Terry,
Thanks for posting these upright. I scarfed up the code and moved it to the original post above.
Regards,
Lee J
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OP
Hmm
Thanks Bill, thanks Terry
So Bill, was it the norm for the order to be filled out by the customer? Someone said this order from Potchernick's was probably two guns for stock. Agent White would have qualified for law enforcement discount, but think you said it showed no discount for this one.
The order from Potchernick's did not specify rear sight or stocks. Maybe that was added after agent White got involved?
The signature really does look like Toepperwein. That would be a story. Famous exhibition shooter works at Potchernick's in San Antonio at age 66. (When he is not on the circuit).
Thanks Bill, thanks Terry
So Bill, was it the norm for the order to be filled out by the customer? Someone said this order from Potchernick's was probably two guns for stock. Agent White would have qualified for law enforcement discount, but think you said it showed no discount for this one.
The order from Potchernick's did not specify rear sight or stocks. Maybe that was added after agent White got involved?
The signature really does look like Toepperwein. That would be a story. Famous exhibition shooter works at Potchernick's in San Antonio at age 66. (When he is not on the circuit).
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Since the 357 or 375 Reg Mag was new and became popular with the FBI suddenly, the LE discount wasn't known by everyone or customer did not want it "registered ".
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Hill536
Member
Perhaps this will "Ad" to the discussion. Toepperwein's signature.
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Most of the .357s I have researched have the S&W order form filled out by the company after the order was received from the company ordering the revolver. If I remember correctly, S&W preferred orders come through dealers and distributors, but would accept orders from individuals.
There is no indication an affidavit was filed with S&W stating that REG. #657 was to be used by law enforcement and eligible for a discounted price.
Bill
There is no indication an affidavit was filed with S&W stating that REG. #657 was to be used by law enforcement and eligible for a discounted price.
Bill
Hill536
Member
Just a thought ! What do you think about the issue of the revolvers timing being out of sorts that was something Toepperwein discovered rather than agent White.
5. Letter from Potchernick's dated Dec 11, 1936. States gun is the property of Jomer C White, c/o the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Customer is very much dissatisfied with it and says gun is out of time. Asks that it be corrected and returned immediately. Two date stamps, one says Rec'd Dec 15 1936. The other says Chg'd Dec 17 1936.
5. Letter from Potchernick's dated Dec 11, 1936. States gun is the property of Jomer C White, c/o the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Customer is very much dissatisfied with it and says gun is out of time. Asks that it be corrected and returned immediately. Two date stamps, one says Rec'd Dec 15 1936. The other says Chg'd Dec 17 1936.
OP
Toepperwein
I took a closer look at the return letter. It is on Potchernick's letterhead. Top left corner lists F L Toepperwein as president.
So not Ad signature most likely. Ad was a long time resident of the San Antonio area. Certainly seems possible that F L was a relative.
I took a closer look at the return letter. It is on Potchernick's letterhead. Top left corner lists F L Toepperwein as president.
So not Ad signature most likely. Ad was a long time resident of the San Antonio area. Certainly seems possible that F L was a relative.
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