It's just like Clinton's ban on Chinese guns and ammo. Thinly disguised gun control.
Russian Ammo BANNED
- Thread starter Rudi
- Start date
Yes, I'm aware of the steel cased ammo in American calibers being available.
I don't shoot them, but for someone who does, this ban will be a PITA, and will drive up ammo prices across the board.
Is this ban to punish Russia. or the American gun owner?
That's why I said that I question the motive.
AJ
US Veteran
The U.S. also toyed with steel cased .45 ACP ammo for a while. I think it is mostly headstamped EC 1943 (IIRC).
max503
Member
Even though I cast my own bullets and reload for everything it will still affect me.
I bought a case of Wolf 223 back in 2000 and still have most of it. That stuff is no fun to shoot. It don't go where I aim it. My reloads go where I aim them.
Everyone likes really cheap plinking grade handgun ammo.
max503
Member
Really good question here.
Telecaster
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It would be nice to think US ammo companies will benefit from this "protectionism" but the bigger ones are on record saying they couldn't or wouldn't expand production. Maybe they'll change their tune, too little and too late.
I wonder who is responsible for that? Surely not the same SJ that is banning steel cased ammo in the US in the name of individual rights
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luvsmiths
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Alex Jones. Just check.
DWalt
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Vast quantites of steel cased .30 Carbine (and also .45 ACP) were made and used by the US military during WWII, so it was in no way experimental. After the war, in the Korean War era, some was also made by Frankford Arsenal. And of course the Russians also made steel-cased .30 Carbine. There is a lot of it still around.
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Oldsalt66
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I go to the range at least twice a week and my experience mirrors yours in that both indoor and outdoor ranges have been suffering a huge decline in business which I attribute to both the scarcity and cost of what used to be inexpensive range ammo.
Folks can't find ammo, but even when they do, they can't afford to buy it in sufficient quantity to justify shooting at the ranges, and now due to the ban on Russian imports, prices are going to increase on all ammo even more..much more.
Biden's handlers have very cleverly mounted an oblique attack on all American shooting enthusiasts, regardless of their chosen firearms or ammunition.
The duplicitous Russian ammunition ban has hurt us all, and from what I'm witnessing, I'm worried about the ability of our shooting ranges to remain in business due to the lack of paying customers.
There is absolutely no up side to what Biden has done.
None.
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Telecaster
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I go to a range that charges an annual membership fee, so the less the range gets used, the less maintenance expense they have. If membership numbers decline, that's a problem. But I'll be renewing next year regardless.
Pic of some steel case ammo from '43.
Dad volunteered for the 10th Mountain when it was formed and since he was raised in the radio business he was assigned to HQ and named "Radio".
The 30Cal we still have is all brass cased.
He and his buddies drilled a hole in those 45s and carried them on their key chains for the rest of their lives.
Unfired Primers were still in and when this 9 year old asked them how they did that they just smiled.
Dad volunteered for the 10th Mountain when it was formed and since he was raised in the radio business he was assigned to HQ and named "Radio".
The 30Cal we still have is all brass cased.
He and his buddies drilled a hole in those 45s and carried them on their key chains for the rest of their lives.
Unfired Primers were still in and when this 9 year old asked them how they did that they just smiled.
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Oldsalt66
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Wolf .22 match ammunition was made in The Lapua Plant in Germany and was outstanding ammunition.
It's currently being manufactured for Wolf by ELEY in Britain, but I haven't shot any so I can't compare it to the German Lapua product.
scoobysnacker
Member
I see the thread over on TheHighRoad discussing this topic has been locked, too much politics. I hope this one doesn't suffer the same fate, so let's try to keep it shooter-oriented:
No, most Russian steel-cased ammo is not match-grade. You very likely won't get your best groups from a benchrest with them.
Extreme accuracy isn't the only measure of proficiency with one's firearms. Casual shooting, "plinking" as we like to call it, maintains a level of familiarity with your gun. It forms and enhances your shooting techniques (good or bad); the more you do something, the more it becomes muscle memory and habit.
I may not be able to hit a dime at 100 meters with Tula out of a rifle, or at 25 meters from a pistol. Check that- no maybe about it, I can't. I can't do that with Federal or Fiocchi brass, either. I don't shoot by having the firearm in a secure, viselike brace, trying to wring out the ultimate mechanical accuracy.
But I can repeatedly hit a target the size of an ammo box (or box of cigarettes, or cell phone) at 15 meters shooting a pistol offhand, and I can hit a pizza box at 100 yds approx with my rifles (as in, I can pick my rifle up, acquire the target with iron sights while standing or kneeling, and hit it). With iron sights and my eyes, that's about as good as I get. I'm not using a scope.
I can do it with Tula, can do it with PPU, Fiocchi or other stuff.
I can do it, because I've shot them enough to obtain reasonable practical familiarity with the gun.
For some calibers, I have a comfortable amount of "good brass" ammo stocked up. For others, I don't. Either I got into that caliber recently, or the cost of new ammo was too high. Cheap ammo helps alleviate that; cheap new steel, or cheap surplus. Tula isn't corrosive, while lots of surplus is. And despite all complaints, Tula is still going to go bang; not all surplus is totally reliable after so many years.
I'm better shooting Romanian steel Mauser stuff, than playing with Iranian surplus that may hangfire or just not even go off.
Reloading could be an answer, but that's an investment too. Nobody wants to bang on an entry-level Lee Loader kit for more than a few rds. Plus you need a basically dedicated workspace, if you're going to set up a serious reloading arrangement. Not all of us have that space, kids take up room. Sometimes storage takes all the room we have.
And then, consider the investment in calibers, especially if you like milsurp rifles. 7.65 Argentine isn't 8mm Mauser, 7.62 NATO, or x39 or x54R. Those are all '30 caliber', along with 30-30 for the necessary levergun. But you can't reload more than one with that set of dies as I understand, and you can't share bullets etc across the board.
And that's not even addressing what a roller-delayed blowback will do to cases; ain't no point in trying to reload for that rifle.
For the calibers that Russia and others make in steel, they are great options for plinking. Even for cheap and common pistol calibers, if they run, you're good right now.
I don't have "safe queens", each firearm I own, I want to shoot. As affordably as possible. If I can shoot 223 for 30 cents a rd, the increased range time will offset that, and I will still have my stored brass for later.
No, most Russian steel-cased ammo is not match-grade. You very likely won't get your best groups from a benchrest with them.
Extreme accuracy isn't the only measure of proficiency with one's firearms. Casual shooting, "plinking" as we like to call it, maintains a level of familiarity with your gun. It forms and enhances your shooting techniques (good or bad); the more you do something, the more it becomes muscle memory and habit.
I may not be able to hit a dime at 100 meters with Tula out of a rifle, or at 25 meters from a pistol. Check that- no maybe about it, I can't. I can't do that with Federal or Fiocchi brass, either. I don't shoot by having the firearm in a secure, viselike brace, trying to wring out the ultimate mechanical accuracy.
But I can repeatedly hit a target the size of an ammo box (or box of cigarettes, or cell phone) at 15 meters shooting a pistol offhand, and I can hit a pizza box at 100 yds approx with my rifles (as in, I can pick my rifle up, acquire the target with iron sights while standing or kneeling, and hit it). With iron sights and my eyes, that's about as good as I get. I'm not using a scope.
I can do it with Tula, can do it with PPU, Fiocchi or other stuff.
I can do it, because I've shot them enough to obtain reasonable practical familiarity with the gun.
For some calibers, I have a comfortable amount of "good brass" ammo stocked up. For others, I don't. Either I got into that caliber recently, or the cost of new ammo was too high. Cheap ammo helps alleviate that; cheap new steel, or cheap surplus. Tula isn't corrosive, while lots of surplus is. And despite all complaints, Tula is still going to go bang; not all surplus is totally reliable after so many years.
I'm better shooting Romanian steel Mauser stuff, than playing with Iranian surplus that may hangfire or just not even go off.
Reloading could be an answer, but that's an investment too. Nobody wants to bang on an entry-level Lee Loader kit for more than a few rds. Plus you need a basically dedicated workspace, if you're going to set up a serious reloading arrangement. Not all of us have that space, kids take up room. Sometimes storage takes all the room we have.
And then, consider the investment in calibers, especially if you like milsurp rifles. 7.65 Argentine isn't 8mm Mauser, 7.62 NATO, or x39 or x54R. Those are all '30 caliber', along with 30-30 for the necessary levergun. But you can't reload more than one with that set of dies as I understand, and you can't share bullets etc across the board.
And that's not even addressing what a roller-delayed blowback will do to cases; ain't no point in trying to reload for that rifle.
For the calibers that Russia and others make in steel, they are great options for plinking. Even for cheap and common pistol calibers, if they run, you're good right now.
I don't have "safe queens", each firearm I own, I want to shoot. As affordably as possible. If I can shoot 223 for 30 cents a rd, the increased range time will offset that, and I will still have my stored brass for later.
AJ
US Veteran
A long time ago I had a couple of Russian 91/30's (sniper and straight rifle) and a 44. We had steel ammo and had trouble extracting the spent steel cased ammo. Tried polishing the chambers and cleaning the ammo, no joy. Switched to brass cases and they got better. Sold them as interests were elsewhere. Bought a NIB SKS for $100 about five years ago and picked up 2K of brass cased 7.62 X 39 and it all sets in the back of my gun cabinet (for a rainy day).
Since the importation ban is a moot point now. There is not much we can do about it. I hate to say that, but that is where it is at. Hopefully the Serbs or someone picks up the slack for folks.
Since the importation ban is a moot point now. There is not much we can do about it. I hate to say that, but that is where it is at. Hopefully the Serbs or someone picks up the slack for folks.
scoobysnacker
Member
As far as I understand it, current importation permits will be honored, until they have to be renewed. That, of course, is just speculation.
As I further understand it, permits appear to be valid for 1 year. This ban seems to take effect starting Sept 7. So...
things that recently got approved, should have a little time, maybe can make another couple shipments. it's possible (however unlikely) that a permit can be finalized prior to the cutoff date, for a "last run".
We all know Wolf, Tula, etc. Of course, Century has Red Army Standard, another large importer of such stuff.
I'm somewhat curious about Maxxtech, and their Essential Steel line. I've seen Maxxtech before, but it was cheapo brass 9mm in a clear plastic container at the time (think it was Croatian stuff).
The Essential Steel, had never seen before. Others identified it as Vympel manufactured, which previously had been labelled as Golden Tiger in 223. Like I said, I hadn't seen that stuff before July in that packaging; so maybe Maxxtech has time for some more imports before it expires.
For practical purposes, I suspect the 7.62x39 is going to be in high demand, it MAY be worth price-shopping brass PPU and stuff like that. Obviously any 5.45 will be priced like it's gold, since Russian appears to be the only source there.
223 will likely be hot, too; since it's a bulk munition for most folks' purposes.
I'm eyeballing the 308 ammo; most folks don't want steel in that (where it runs great in mine). I was able to snag some at 50 cts a rd, which should be favorable in price to brass even if the panic ever passes. If I can find more, I might get it. That, and if some Makarov comes down the pipe at favorable prices; there are European options for that.
As I further understand it, permits appear to be valid for 1 year. This ban seems to take effect starting Sept 7. So...
things that recently got approved, should have a little time, maybe can make another couple shipments. it's possible (however unlikely) that a permit can be finalized prior to the cutoff date, for a "last run".
We all know Wolf, Tula, etc. Of course, Century has Red Army Standard, another large importer of such stuff.
I'm somewhat curious about Maxxtech, and their Essential Steel line. I've seen Maxxtech before, but it was cheapo brass 9mm in a clear plastic container at the time (think it was Croatian stuff).
The Essential Steel, had never seen before. Others identified it as Vympel manufactured, which previously had been labelled as Golden Tiger in 223. Like I said, I hadn't seen that stuff before July in that packaging; so maybe Maxxtech has time for some more imports before it expires.
For practical purposes, I suspect the 7.62x39 is going to be in high demand, it MAY be worth price-shopping brass PPU and stuff like that. Obviously any 5.45 will be priced like it's gold, since Russian appears to be the only source there.
223 will likely be hot, too; since it's a bulk munition for most folks' purposes.
I'm eyeballing the 308 ammo; most folks don't want steel in that (where it runs great in mine). I was able to snag some at 50 cts a rd, which should be favorable in price to brass even if the panic ever passes. If I can find more, I might get it. That, and if some Makarov comes down the pipe at favorable prices; there are European options for that.
Mike in Reedley
Member
Can we import ammo from Afghanistan? I hear they recently came into a large quantity of quality ammo.
There is not a thing wrong with Russian ammo. It fires 100% of the time.
It used to be cheap enough that I rarely reloaded for my AKM and SKS rifles, but I suppose that will change soon.
It used to be cheap enough that I rarely reloaded for my AKM and SKS rifles, but I suppose that will change soon.
I have shot a lot of the 9mm steel case bi metal out of my M&P and the .45 out of 1911's all with very respectable results. I bought a bunch of it really cheap quite awhile ago, so I would hate to see it go. I also do not like the 2A implications as stated before.
I am a re-loader though, so I have 3 levels of ammo, steel case plinking stuff, brass cased plinking and serious home defense, then those I roll myself. All depends on what tool I need for the job right ?
I am a re-loader though, so I have 3 levels of ammo, steel case plinking stuff, brass cased plinking and serious home defense, then those I roll myself. All depends on what tool I need for the job right ?
