Carbide die and 9mm

[Racer X]

REALLY new to reloading.

So, how does a fixed diameter carbide die deal with the tapered 9mm cases?

I have Lee 4 piece 9mm die set, if that helps? Haven't loaded anything yet. Still trying to get the garage set up, then build a HF woodworker's bench for my presses. Loadmasters and an APP. The APP will go one one of the removeable plates, and only mounted when needed to prep brass.

 

[colt_saa]

Obviously a carbide ring sizes the cartridge straight

It brings everything to the smallest diameter, which is the case mouth measurement.

Millions upon millions of hand loads have been loaded and safely fired since the introduction of carbide sizers, you have nothing to worry about

 

[Racer X]

does it fire form to the tapered chamber? sounds like it does.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

IMO the taper is so small its nothing to worry about. "colt_saa" made a good post above.

I load the 9mm with Lee carbide dies and have never had a problem.

 

[LostintheOzone]

I use carbide dies for some cartridge's. The advantage is longer life and less wear as tungsten carbide is much harder than steel.

That's about the only difference. My 9mm dies aren't carbide but if you have those you're ahead of the game.

 

[Krogen]

My old RCBS 9mm dies have a full length carbide insert. It sizes the tapered case just like a regular steel die. Paid a fortune for it back in the late 80's. Same concept as 30 carbine carbide dies. Presumably to save money some manufacturers use a short ring that doesn't fully size the case. Evidently it works. Others like Redding are using two rings. Perhaps that helps. I think the best solution is a full length carbide insert, if still available and if one is willing to pay the price.

 

[jag22]

You're off to a bad start. Don't over think everything. Follow the instruction and learn from your mistakes, which hopefully are small. After a while you'll start to understand how the pieces fit together.

 

[k22fan]

As I experienced it, carbide handgun dies became popular during the early 1970s. Many carbide dies were sold individually to reloaders who already had die sets with steel resizing dies. Pacific Dura-Chrome, Lyman, RCBS and probably most other brands' 9 mm carbide sizers had full length tapered carbide inserts. They were more expensive than carbide dies for straight revolver cases. Considering I've been using my Pacific Dura-Chrome and RCBS 9 mm carbide sizers ~ 45 years the extra expense was not much per year. Given a choice I would not buy a single diameter 9 mm carbide sizer.

 

[Ron IL]

I've been using the 4 die carbide sets for probably 15 years now. On regular pistol cases you don't need lube. I have the Lee classic turret and have them set up for 9, 38, 45acp, and 45 colt. Just swap out the turret, pour powder in it and start loading. Can't get any easier.

 

[stansdds]

I use a Lyman carbide sizing die, no issue with the case taper.

 

[Arm]

Yes the carbide die will make the cases straight, however, keep in mind the last step reloading the 9mm is the taper crimp to lock the bullet.

 

[stansdds]

Taper crimp does not actually lock the bullet, that is a function of case neck tension. Taper crimp should only press the belled case mouth to the side of the bullet so that there is no flared edge to impede feeding into into the chamber.

 

[Moe Mentum]

You have the 4 die set, you are good to go, don't over think this, handgun rounds are very simple to reload.

 

[minconrevo]

The 9mm Luger AKA 9 x 19 has more case taper than many handgun cartridges. Setting up the dies optimally is critical for good performance of your reloads. I've run both the RCBS and Dillon 4 die sets. With the 9mm is especially important that the sizing die be adjusted so that the loaded bullet is visible and the case below it is a smaller diameter. Lacking this, the bullet on feeding will be pushed back into the case, setting up a high pressure event upon primer ignition. I set the taper crimp die to produce a .376" at the very tip of the case. This is a critical dimension. COL will vary with the bullet used. As expected, too short a COL will produce failures to feed. Too long won't run through a full magazine. Start the the recommended COL from your manual and adjust from there. I simply pull the barrel from the gun for this preliminary test, then try to a load a magazine full of them. If it works then its on to chrono and accuracy testing.

 

[9mmPatriot]

Yes the carbide die will make the cases straight, however, keep in mind the last step reloading the 9mm is the taper crimp to lock the bullet.

Not everyone crimps 9mm. I've only been reloading since this past December and reading on the subject lead me to skip the crimp.


I do push-check my reloads and have had any issues at all.


My $.02

YMMV

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Might want to recheck your sizer die

So, how does a fixed diameter carbide die deal with the tapered 9mm cases?

.

Obviously a carbide ring sizes the cartridge straight.
It brings everything to the smallest diameter, which is the case mouth measurement.

Yes the carbide die will make the cases straight...

IMO the taper is so small its nothing to worry about.

.

I've never claimed to be a historian but I believe I recall reading that the old/original carbide 9x19 sizer dies had just a carbide "ring"?
(Straight wall cartridge carbide sizers only have (need) a ring.)

My oldest 9x19 sizer is all steel.

About 15 years (?) ago I bought a stand-alone Lee 9x19 carbide sizer die to compliment my existing older set.

More recently I purchased a new Lee Deluxe 9x19 set which of course has a carbide sizer die also.

.

Having never stayed in a Holiday Inn Express, but not believing that modern 9x19 carbide sizing dies make your tapered cases straight, I decided a simple test was in order.

First I removed the center de-priming rod & nut to gain full access to the Deluxe Set's carbide sizer's opening & internal length.

Using my pin gage set I found that the largest pin that can enter the sizer die's mouth is .392", where it's stopped.

A .381" pin can only go ~.210" inside the die before it's stopped by the carbide sizer's insert.

A .371" pin can go ~.409" inside before it's stopped.

A .370" pin will go fully inside & is not stopped by the insert's smallest diameter.

These rough measurements closely mirror SAAMI 9x19 specs.

.

This unquestionably shows that modern 9x19 carbide sizer die have a tapered internal "insert" that provides the proper case taper (~.011", mouth-base) to the re-sized case, not a straight, no taper, sizing you'd only get with a carbide "ring" only.

Both of my Lee carbide sizer dies have the same features & while these dies undoubtedly make sizing easier you still can feel the extra resistance to full length sizing a 9x19 case -vs- a 40 S&W case because of the full contact at the last of the sizing stroke.

Really all you need to do is measure your sized case with a caliper & you can see the taper.

.

 

[mikld]

I haven't thought about my carbide sizing dies in probably 35 years, except when setting up a die (I don't want to run it into the shell holder and possibly crack it). I have no idea how many 9mm cases have been sized with my Lee dies ( last week I sized 500 and have about 2,000 JIC rounds and maybe 500 handloads waiting to be fired, and that's just in the last year). When I get tired or size some tougher cases (hot loaded 44 Magnums) I'll put a dab of lube on my finger every 10th round or so).

Yes, the 9mm carbide die use a straight carbide ring, and yes, the 9mm case is tapered, but in the many thousands of rounds I've reloaded, not a single problem related to these two facts...

 

[Just another 22 shooter]

This thread got me wondering, so I went and looked at my 9mm dies. I have 2 RCBS, one dated '90 and one with no date; both have a full length carbide inserts. My Lee die of unknown age also has full length carbide insert in it.

 

[Racer X]

This is why I love this place. Thanks so much to all of you.

 

[gwpercle]

It "oversises" the base ... at times leaving a wonky looking line and bulge at the base where the carbide ring stops sizing .
Some don't mind the wonky base line / bulge and not all brands of brass are as bad as other brands .
If the wonky look bothers you simple replace the carbide with a old school steel die and spray some case lube on them ... Even when using carbide dies , it's much easier to size them when they have a little lube on them .
I went back to a CH4D Steel sizer die because I didn't like the wonky looking base ... case lube doesn't bother me .
Gary