Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92

[oysterer]

I wanted one and after long deliberation incl here on the forum I decided to wait instead of risking a new one. After a while I found a 1979 and now added a 1964 cocking indicator. Both are wonderful, made when manufacturing was done with pride and expert craftsmen made things by hand here in America. I am one infraction short of telling what I really think of this...

 

[gdogs]

So you read everything you could find on the Model 41, and then you went out and ordered a brand new one instead of finding a really nice older used one? I'm sorry, I may not be the normal S&W owner here, but there is no way I'd order a brand new S&W. I've no interest whatsoever in one made after the year 2000, and likely needs to be another 50 years older than that to get me revved. When it doubt, always buy an older one if available - they just made them better. My Mid 80's Mod 41 has never let me down, doubt it ever will.

 

[AreWeNotMen?]

Appreciate the feedback (aside from the smarmy lecture comments ). Can't buy a used one if you can't find one (at a non-stupid OTD price). The ugliness we see are raised blobs, not divots. I emailed S&W yesterday; started polite, will keep you posted.

I did eyeball the bore before doing paper, but these globs appeared to be nothing more than test-shot residue to my aged eyes. Lesson learned too late - take a bore scope to inspect any firearm before you buy.

If there is any good news in my story, between the time I ordered the pistol and picking it up, the retailer had reduced the price - they gave me $97 back.

 

[BB4XL]

I would never buy a Brand new S&W anything.

 

[armorer951]

....and the $1400 question is......how does it shoot?

 

[bigmoose]

My initial thought upon seeing the bore photos is this....Those bumps or globs appear to be unburnt gunpowder flakes that are impregnated in heavy grease. Was the bore swabbed thoroughly with a brass brush and good solvent? Please don't take offense if this is a stupid question. I'm just trying to be a supportive forum pal. I can't imagine a scenario where 'bumps' would be formed after a rifling button or broach was passed through the bore.

Stiff safeties can usually be remedied by gently addressing the "ball in detent" area with some polishing etc or if it is a spring type latch, bending the spring a bit more to the relaxed position and polishing the catch area of the safety lever. I have never worked on a 41 before so seek advice from the experts if needed. Good luck, and I'm guessing all is not lost.

 

[Rick H.]

Yeah, that's the answer, don't buy anything from Smith and Wesson. That way when the company goes belly-up you can thank yourself for the loss and then complain about the company going under.

To the OP, I have never, ever seen a barrel in that condition in my life and I have looked down hundreds of barrels both old and new. Having said that, I have seen only one barrel with a similar protrusion on a high end .22 cal rifle, but it was just one protrusion. The manufacturer took care of it via a barrel replacement, but never gave an answer as to what it was that caused the bump. S&W most assuredly will replace the barrel on your pistol once they look at it. They can't dodge this bullet. I for one would really like to know what their explanation will be for what caused these lumps in your barrel. If it was a tooling error of some sort then more than likely there are more barrels out there in the same condition. I assume that you did a thorough cleaning of the barrel using a brush correct?

Clearly this should have been caught before your pistol left the factory and it's a darn shame it wasn't. I can only vouch for the fact S&W repaired my PC41 quite satisfactorily albeit with a six week wait. I would want an explanation for what caused this pistol to leave the Mothership in that condition, especially the barrel! Your other two issues being the safety and movement of the trigger guard are pretty common and can be rectified with some elbow grease. Operating both will free them up and make them easier, but I wouldn't fool with it at this point. Let S&W take care of those two items also.


Good luck and please keep us informed of your progress.

Rick H.

P.S. The more I think about this barrel issue the more concerned I am getting. I am going to send S&W a letter on this along with one of the pictures and ask what the h**l is going on there! Completely unacceptable to me and I like new M41's..

 

[GaryS]

As someone else mentioned, it's always wise to clean and lubricate a new gun before firing. They shoot them at the factory before shipping, but they don't clean them.

I've never emailed S&W customer service, I always call. In the cases where I had to send a gun back they've emailed me a shipping label within minutes.

I'd ship it back and have them fix it, but that's just me.

My new 351C which was a warranty replacement for one I bought used was misfiring out of the box. I tested different brands of ammunition to see if that was the problem. It wasn't so I called customer service and shipped it back.

They replaced the firing pin and firing pin spring and realigned the yoke (whatever that means). It's shot great ever since.

I'd do that as opposed to wanting my money back, because there's some chance that if you buy another gun you'll have the same or some other problems.

Appreciate the feedback (aside from the smarmy lecture comments ). Can't buy a used one if you can't find one (at a non-stupid OTD price). The ugliness we see are raised blobs, not divots. I emailed S&W yesterday; started polite, will keep you posted.

I did eyeball the bore before doing paper, but these globs appeared to be nothing more than test-shot residue to my aged eyes. Lesson learned too late - take a bore scope to inspect any firearm before you buy.

If there is any good news in my story, between the time I ordered the pistol and picking it up, the retailer had reduced the price - they gave me $97 back.

 

[Sevens]

Full disclosure: I don't know the details of the EXTRA hassles associated with trying to have a rimfire target pistol shipped in to that foreign land…

With that said, there are more than one hundred of these live on that big auction site we always talk about, many of them are buy-it-now and hundreds less than $1,400 for a pistol that S&W apparently can no longer properly build.

Pre-2000 era Model 41's are fantastic pistols. Post 2000? Good luck to you.

 

[AreWeNotMen?]

My initial thought upon seeing the bore photos is this....Those bumps or globs appear to be unburnt gunpowder flakes that are impregnated in heavy grease. Was the bore swabbed thoroughly with a brass brush and good solvent? Please don't take offense if this is a stupid question. I'm just trying to be a supportive forum pal. I can't imagine a scenario where 'bumps' would be formed after a rifling button or broach was passed through the bore.

Stiff safeties can usually be remedied by gently addressing the "ball in detent" area with some polishing etc or if it is a spring type latch, bending the spring a bit more to the relaxed position and polishing the catch area of the safety lever. I have never worked on a 41 before so seek advice from the experts if needed. Good luck, and I'm guessing all is not lost.

Thanks for commenting - no offense at all.

Yes, my routine with a new firearm is to do a thorough inspection and cleaning. Bore was swabbed with solvent and patch dried, then a new bronze brush run through several times, then solvent swabbed and dried again.

 

[Greyman50]

Holy Cow! SWAG is the bore was not cleaned after initial gun drilling leaving " crud" in hole. Appears rifling button was not push/ pulled through in a Steady Even rate leaving " steps" and gouging thanks to " crud" left from drilling. Perhaps the coolant/ lube for button was off? Regardless this is simply really Poor machining, certainly not expected in a $1,400 pistol. In light of the "current situation" with qualified, experienced skilled labor, not surprised . Who was the QC/QA guy? Ray Charles??????

 

[AreWeNotMen?]

Okay, to cover a few posted comments (and not artificially build my post count):

The hassle of buying used w/o inspection, shipping costs, up to $100 fee at FFL to accept a private party or dealer transfer, etc. was not appealing to me. None were local, and prices here in CA tend to be stupider than most other places.

Although I've bought more handguns used than new, sometimes my OCD tendencies rule and I cannot get pass some other icky human having "violated" what I plan to own. Examples? Last few new vehicles I bought literally just came off the delivery truck (yet I've bought innumerable used vehicles without issue), I reach for the box further back in the display of whatever at the store...I know its weird and inconsistent, but its me.

Twas cleaned thoroughly the same night I got it home - that's when the bore scope found the uglies.

I emailed v. called because I like a written record; they sent a prepaid FedEx label this morning and I shipped it back this afternoon.

I don't want my money back, I want an appropriate quality Model 41.

I've tried before, but in my experience S&W does not explain their failures, does not sufficiently explain what they did to "correct" the issue, and has little empathy with us - their customers.

The answer to "the $1400 question" is I dunno - didn't want to waste time and ammo shooting a gun I knew was going to be different in its ultimate configuration (shooting club is 30 minutes away - no "back 40 range" here).

As disappointing as this, I'll be sure to let you know how it goes.

PS - I'm adding a pic of the "third-world quality" muzzle/crown for for fun.

 

[hkcavalier]

That looks like a Siberian diamond mine...

 

[AreWeNotMen?]

That looks like a Siberian diamond mine...

If only it were, if only...

 

[6string]

RELINE!

If it was my m41, I'd get the barrel relined by a gunsmith who specializes in custom work for Bullseye pistol.
I recommend Alex Hamilton of Ten Ring Precision, Jerry Keefer, or David Sams.
These guys have great reputations and regularly do this work. For serious target shooting most m41s these days need this type of custom work. Typically costs about $200.

 

[Sevens]

Jerry Keefer passed away nearly four years ago.

 

[6string]

Jerry Keefer passed away nearly four years ago.

Wow, I didn't know that! Sad to hear!
And, I thought I was timely just to have remembered that Lou Lombardi retired from Falcon Machining. He did some GREAT .22 barrel relines on m41s, High Standards, and Hämmerli 208s.

I recommend getting a reline on the m41 barrel vs. getting a Clark m41 barrel. I have always suspected, based on their appearance the machining of the locking lug, that their barrels are blanks that they get from S&W.
The custom builders use barrel liners from Anschütz or Lothar Walther. This is match grade stuff, not to be confused with the DIY products sold by Midway, etc.

By the way, not a lot of people know that at least at one time (may still be true?) that S&W made three different types of interchangeable breech blocks to fit the m41 slide. These were made with the rim recess either centered, or slightly biased to the left or right. The idea was to better align a cartridge for barrels whose bores do not perfectly align with the slide.

 

[chief38]

....and the $1400 question is......how does it shoot?

If you bought a brand new BMW and it was scratched, dented, and dirty I don't think the $64,000 question would be, "how does it drive".

Weather or not the gun shoots perfectly is not what one wants after spending his/her hard earned money on it. I think the Factory should either make it right or refund 100% of the money spent on it. Buy hey, that's just my opinion.

 

[F75gunslinger]

I would have at least shot the gun first to see how it did. I've seen guns with lots of work shoot mediocre groups and I've seen guns with a bore that looks like 5 miles of dirt road shoot cloverleafs. It all depends on the gun.

 

[chief38]

I have to apologize, but I'm a service and reliability kind of shooter, and Lord knows, I will never own a BMW. Heck, I don't even own a bore scope. I could care less "weather" the bore is pristine or not.....or what it looks like. If the gun is safe, accurate and reliable, I'm happy.

I understand your point. I would agree that if you own a vintage firearm, tool, car, or whatever and it works 100% all the time - then why not be happy. Function over form. In this case, paying $1,400 for a .22 pistol that is "supposed to be" on the top of the heap, brand new in the box and pristine - most anyone I know would not expect holes, pitting and major defects and would be outraged as I would.

BTW I'd never buy another BMW (been there - done that - so we agree there - lol) but let's just say one saved up for years for a new car of whatever the manufacturer, and it came in all damaged - again, if it handled and rode great that's a plus, but doesn't mean they shouldn't be upset that it is still damaged. Just saying......