38 Super, Light Loads for Bullseye

[Krogen]

Mostly I shoot 2 guns in Bullseye, a 22 and a 45. But occasionally I shoot a smaller caliber in the centerfire portion. I've used my Sig 1911 in 38 Super a few times and been disappointed with the accuracy and recoil. There are lots of loads for the 38 Super on this forum and out on the 'net. The majority focus on getting the maximum velocity out of the 38 Super which isn't applicable to Bullseye. We shoot powder puff loads. (let the jokes begin!)

Does anybody have experience downloading the 38 Super with the aim of reduced recoil and high accuracy? If so, what's your advice? I have a lot of powder and bullet choices including some 0.356" bullets intended for the Super. Being a modern gun, the Sig 1911 headspaces on the mouth so that old problem isn't applicable.

I know I'd probably be better off just sticking with my 41 and Gold Cup, but I'm a persistent experimenter.

Thanks in advance,

Krogen

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Since I know you are referring to "Bullseye" in the competitive sense vs. as a powder, perhaps by listing your available powder choices one could, perhaps, opine more objectively...?

Cheers!

 

[Krogen]

Yep, STORMINORMAN, it's Bullseye in the competitive sense. I asked an open-ended question so as to not "lead the witness."

I'm OK with picking powders/charges from my stash and then working up some loads the way I've done for quite some time. For "powder puff" loads, I figure a faster powder like Clays or Titegroup or maybe the old standby Bullseye would be a good place to start. As for bullets, I'm thinking the 0.356" diameter might be a better choice. I've heard people have used 9mm (0.355") or 38/357 (0.357") bullets successfully.

I'm keen to hear about lessons learned from people who have gone down this path successfully or even unsuccessfully.

 

[brianfede]

I'm following this thread to see what the others have to say here. From my limited experience, and I don't shoot bullseye. The HAP 125 grain .356 has been the most accurate bullet for me.

 

[.38SuperMan]

I’ve been experimenting with light loads in 9mm recently and found bullseye with a 125 polymer coated bullet to be extremely mild. I’ve also experimented with Accurate N100NF and found the recoil so low that the slide won’t always lock back even with a reduced power spring (1911).

I plan to try this with my 38 supers one day. I believe my testing will result in very mild recoil and accurate loads. I believe I’ll stay with Bullseye in 9mm since I’m getting excellent reliability and velocities around 1000fps. You might even try a 115 grain bullet.

I have arthritis in my hands and wrists and have become very recoil sensitive and Bullseye loads fit the bill.

 

[DWalt]

For a long time, my standard light load for a .38 Super has been 4.5 grains of 700-X and a 124 grain truncated cone lead bullet (0.356", from Missouri Bullet Co.). You would probably get very similar results using Bullseye, Red Dot, or Clays powders instead of 700-X. It is also my 18-YO Granddaughter's favorite load in my M1911. She does very well with it using the Mozambique drill on the head and shoulders silhouette target at 10 yards. And it doesn't sling fired cases 20 feet away. 100% feeding reliability.

 

[Nevada Ed]

In my 9mm loads, I found the w231 powder will deliver good accuracy with starting loads.
Bullseye is almost as good and will also give low fps with acceptible accuracy but needs to be messed with.

You might also try CFEp, if you have some on hand, since it works for me
with light to full loads and might be a "sleeper".

Good luck.

 

[824tsv]

You have your work cut out for you. Bullseye Competition type accuracy out of a .38 Super will be hard to achieve. I've experimented with many loads with both 9mm and .38 Super to get good 20 yard accuracy and so far I haven't found one. I can get better accuracy out of a 9mm vs .38 Super.

 

[gwpercle]

I competed with the 22LR . 38 Special and 45 acp back in the day but a buddy had a 38 Super and we worked up a couple accurate loads with cast bullets for targets and tin cans :
38 Super - 124 grain cast lead truncated cone - sized .357":

1.) 4.0 grains Bullseye - was a good target load .
2.) 4.0 grains 700X - target load.
3.) 5.0 grains Unique - good general purpose load .

All of these loads are in the 900 to 1000 fps range .
Powder charge has to cycle the action so verify with your pistol .

Gary

 

[Nevada Ed]

That is the only "Rub" with light loads in a "Pistol"..................

You have to find a load that will work the slide 100% and also get ejections of the cases.

Fast powders work as do medium speed powders, just depends on the weapon
however I do know that in my C9 3.5" and a 124 gr plated "FMJ" gets a very low fps but also stove pipes with IMR 4227 powder !!
(please don't try this)

Good luck on finding a load.

 

[DWalt]

That is the only "Rub" with light loads in a "Pistol"..................

You have to find a load that will work the slide 100% and also get ejections of the cases.

Don't forget you may have to do a little experimenting with different slide springs to find the proper weight to get satisfactory functioning and case ejection with whatever load you come up with. I prefer to use a spring weight which doesn't throw the case more than a few feet. It makes finding and picking up fired brass much easier.

 

[Krogen]

Thanks, everybody! I appreciate your ideas and insight. In the last match my Gold cup .45 ACP outdid the Sig 38 Super by a sizeable margin. So much that it was unlikely all the shooter's fault. Generally I blame the shooter (myself) but this was pretty clear. So I'm going to try and extract some better performance from the darn thing.

I loaded up a few rounds today with the Hornady 125 gr HAP bullet. I think I'll leave cast bullet experimentation for another time. As another poster said above, I'll probably have plenty of challenges anyway.

From Hogdon's annual, I loaded some of the following:

Hornady 125 gr HAP, 0.356"; 4.2 gr, 4.4 gr and 4.6 gr Titegroup (Hodgdon's max is 4.8 gr)

Hornady 125 gr HAP, 0.356"; 3.6 gr, 3.8 gr and 4.0 gr Clays (Hodgdon's max is 4.2 gr)

Predicted velocities even with starting charges are higher than I'd like. Based on what I learn about group sizes and function, I'll probably try going below the starting charges. Watching for squibs and trying lighter springs will be part of that experiment.

 

[SuperMan]

While the 124 HAP bullet is probably one of the most accurate 9mm bullets, if you bump up to the 147 grain TC it will be easily as accurate and impart more momentum to the slide making cycling more reliable.

As stated above you will also need reduced powered main and recoil springs balanced to your lighter than nominal loads.

No reason with a little explanation this won't work and maybe end up more accurate than the .45...

Bob

 

[M29since14]

My opinion is that the Super is no different than a .45 in the 1911. If you have a good barrel, properly fitted, and good ammunition assembled with good bullets, you can expect good accuracy. Since I shoot at 25-yards or less these days, I’ve been perfectly happy with cast LTC bullets and Super Field or HS6 powder. The cast bullets are from a Lee mold, and are powder coated and sized 0.357”. I’ve never tried this combination at 50-yards, but I wouldn’t be surprised if one could improve on it for accuracy with a jacketed bullet. At 25-yards my cast bullet ammunition will “outshoot” me. Both of my Supers have Kart ramped barrels. They shoot very well and stay pretty clean. Powder charges are adjusted for a muzzle velocity of right around 1200 FPS.