Need Advice - Model 25 - which 45LC cast bullet?

[oldvette]

I plan to acquire a Model 25-5 or newer in the near future. I assume this will have the .451 barrel, and I was wondering which bullet I should work with?

My primary interest is target shooting using "reasonable" loads. I am not interested in comparing the Model 25 experience with my Model 29!

Right now, I cast 230 grain Lee bullets for my 1911 ACP using a 2-cavity mold. I have since started to use the 6 cavity TL Lee molds for my other caliber castings - what a time saver! I would most likely buy the 6-cavity TL452-xxx mold for the bullet I select for the Model 25-X, perhaps to include a new 230 6 hole mold if that's the best bullet.

What kind of advice can I get from this group?

Thanks in advance.

Jack

 

[S&WIowegan]

While 25-5s can be very pretty they generally have over-large chamber mouths. I suggest buying a 25-7 or 25-9 which have proper chamber mouth dimensions so you can shoot lead.

 

[scattershot]

Not sure about the bore diameter, but my 25-5 has overlarge chamber throats, and prefers .454 soft cast bullets.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

In the early 80's I had both a 4" and a 6" 25-5. They liked soft lead 225 SWC/HP/HB best. Since I can't get that ammo any more, I load up 220 gr. RNFP made with soft lead, sized .452". This is in the 750-800 fps velocity. I use this for everything but big game! Since I have 22 pounds of WW231 I use 6.7 grains with WLP primer.

Ivan

 

[rockquarry]

Lyman #454424, 255-260 grs. cast of wheelweight or even slightly softer alloy and 8.5 grs. Unique is a very popular and accurate load. With the large chamber throats of the original guns, .454" is a minimum bullet diameter.

I use an old Lyman mould that casts around .456" or so. I put the bullets through a sizer/lubricator using a .459" bullet size die so they only get lubed and not sized at all.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

@oldvette
I'm not sure if you know buy your post, I'm fairly sure the M25-5 is chambered in 45 Colt, not 45 ACP.

 

[oldvette]

Sorry for the confusion.

I realize I could use the 230 bullet in the long colt round. I was just wondering what others use on the 25 Long Colt chambering; also a valid excuse for me to upgrade to a 6-cavity mold.

From what I have read, my options are most likely 200, 250 and 255 Keith bullets. Mt gut feel is I should go with the 200, but I wanted to know what others think before I spend the $60 for a mold.

Jack

 

[AJ]

I have a 25-9 that I shoot cast lead bullets in I use a 250 grain cast lead bullet on top of 5.6 grains of Bullseye. I use this loading as it is what was designed for my Colt M1909 U.S.Army. The War Department wanted a 250 grain at 725 FPS for the 1909 This loading works well in the 25-9 and the 1909 Also does not beat up either revolver, being especially careful of the 1909 as it is 112 years old.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

My 25-5 shot "buckshot" patterns with .451" and 452" bullets. I started casting .454" dia. bullets for it and now it shoots good groups.

 

[ms]

Compressed load?

I have a 25-9 that I shoot cast lead bullets in I use a 250 grain cast lead bullet on top of 56 grains of Bullseye. I use this loading as it is what was designed for my Colt M1909 U.S.Army. The War Department wanted a 250 grain at 725 FPS for the 1909 This loading works well in the 25-9 and the 1909 Also does not beat up either revolver, being especially careful of the 1909 as it is 112 years old.

Seems a little hot.

 

[AJ]

Seems a little hot.

Missed the period 5.6 grains.

 

[Hasbeen1945]

Try to find a non pinned 25-5. Most reports say they have the correct throats. The pinned versions seem to have the larger spec throats.
25-7 or 25-9 also have the smaller throats.

 

[cowboy4evr]

I have 2 cast bullet designs that I use in the 45 Colt . I have an original H&G 501 , Elmer Keiths swc design for the 45 colt . It weights 255 grs . My other is the LEE 452-255gr RNFP . It casts a bit larger in diameter . I size both .454 and have no problems w/accuracy or leading my barrels . My Smith 25-5 shoots accurately with either bullet . My 3 favorite loads are 8.0grs of Ramshot Zip , 9.0 grs of WSF , 7.0 grs of 700X with either cast bullet . I don't try to " magnumize " the 45 colt . A 255 gr cast bullet @ about 900 fps will do all I need for a " walking around " load in the desert and for protection against 2 / 4 legged miscretes . Regards Paul

 

[biku324]

The Lyman 452423 (Keith semi-wadcutter) at 235-245 grains, depending upon alloy, is superb in any 25 or 625 using either ACP or Auto Rim cases. You can get an honest 925-950 fps with Longshot. You'll have to find used because it's been out of print quite a while.

Keith designed it for 1917 revolvers.

The story of Elmer Keith and his SWC’s. To review -- it’s 1929, The Great War ended a decade ago, the '20s have been roaring for some time, flappers, big bands and jazz have taken the country by storm, the stock market is about to crash, prohibition is in effect and organized crime has moved in to supply the thirsty US of A with libations. The transition has been made from black powder, and the shooting public now has some understanding (and trust) for the new smokeless powders. But magnum handgun cartridges (and magnum pressure levels) are still unknown to the American handgunner. This is the Golden Age of the .45 ACP -- from the newly refined Colt 1911-A1 and the S&W 1917 revolver, to the Thompson sub-machine gun, the .45 ACP was definitely basking in the center stage spotlight. Military surplus ammo and components were widely available, as were revolvers, semi-autos and fully automatic firearms with which to fire it. The importance of this market was not lost on Elmer Keith. He was so pleased with how well his 429421 had worked out in the .44 Special that he applied those same design concepts to the .45 ACP.

Elmer Keith designed the Ideal 452423 for the .45 Auto and it’s thick-headed younger brother the .45 Auto Rim. The result was the Lyman/Ideal 452423, a 238 grain Keith SWC that started off with 3 equal width driving bands, a “square-cut” grease groove, a beveled crimp groove (for use in the revolvers), a short nose (to keep OAL length down so that loaded rounds worked in the magazine guns), and a big, fat meplat (.340”, or 75% of bullet diameter) to maximize their effectiveness in the hunting fields.

The excellent performance of the 452423 in the .45 ACP was, in large part, overshadowed by the subsequent release of the .357 Magnum with its unprecedented velocities and kinetic energy figures, but that doesn’t change the fact that Keith’s first SWC in .45 caliber was, and is, both deadly and accurate. Standard loads for this bullet worked in the 800-900 fps range, and Keith worked up some +P loads that delivered 1100 fps from large frame revolvers. These old guns are best limited today to loads generating 900 fps or less (newer guns, with better steels and heat treatment, work just fine with Keith’s +P loads). Chapter 12 - The Keith Semiwadcutter (SWC) Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners - Glen E. Fryxell

 

[oldvette]

Try to find a non pinned 25-5. Most reports say they have the correct throats. The pinned versions seem to have the larger spec throats.
25-7 or 25-9 also have the smaller throats.

Interesting. So, apparently I should find a 6-1/2" model 25-5 or higher?

Jack

 

[gwpercle]

For 45 Colt , general purpose use , let me suggest :

Lee 452 - 200 - RF : this would be for lighter loads , targets , tin cans and just all around range use with lighter loads .

Lee 452 - 252 - SWC : this is the classic weight and SWC design , good for heavier loads , hunting and in general something with a bit more whoop to it .

Let me also suggest buying each in a 2 cavity design , shooting them both and then deciding which you shoot most ... then buy a 6 cavity .
You can always sell the 2 cavity or keep it for back up or loaner or gift to a new bullet caster .

I tend to shoot a lot more 200 grain bullets , targets and tin cans aren't that tough .
No matter what ... you need a bullet with a "Crimp Groove" in 45 Colt ( True the case is long ...but the correct name is 45 Colt ... not Long Colt )
Gary

 

[oldvette]

Hi Gary,

I had been buying the corresponding Lee sizer when I purchased a 6-cavity, but I still have my Lyman 450 sizer with many dies, including the .452 which I use for my 230 ACP bullets.

I do like the Alox shake-and-go lubrication convenience, however, versus the Lyman lube system. I upgraded to the 148 TL 6-cavity mold when I picked up my Mod 52 automatic.

I still use the 450 for gas check apps on my .357 and .44 mag bullet sizing. I don't think that 252 bullet is the Lee TL design, while the 200 is a TL. Isn't the 252 the Keith style? That's what I use for my 38's and 44's.

For $58, I might just buy both molds - seems like both bullets are worth shooting.

Jack

 

[Hasbeen1945]

Interesting. So, apparently I should find a 6-1/2" model 25-5 or higher?

Jack

Barrel length is not a factor. Weather the barrel is pinned or not on the 25-5. They changed the specs on the throats with the non pinned model. The non pinned has smaller throats.
All 25-7 or 25-9 have small throats.

 

[oldvette]

I had the impression the 6" barrel was pinned but the 6-1/2 inch was the newer design with the smaller throat.

What about the 25-15 model?

Jack

 

[bananaman]

I tend to use copper plated 230 gr. in my 25-15. It is just easy because they can be used for my ACP guns. Bob

I currently have .452 230 gr coated lead projectiles also.