357 Mag and Bullseye

[cowboy4evr]

I just checked in Speer 8 (oh NO , NOT That ! ) , their 357 magnum load using a 158 gr swc and Bullseye powder . The starting load is listed as 3.5 grs and max of 4.7 . Alliants current load data is 4.8 grs as a max . Like I have said before that Speer #8 is better than some give it credit for . Regards Paul

 

[alwslate]

If you bother to read the ctg information in your Speer manuals instead of just looking at the load tables you might learn something. They clearly state that velocities with their 158 gr swaged SWCs are kept low to prevent leading. The so called maximum load of 4.8 grs of Bullseye reflects that. Speer # 11 lists a maximum load of 7.1 grs of Bullseye with a 158 jacketed bullet which is in line with top data in other manuals. Read your manuals folks. Don't just look at the load data and ignore all of the "boring" information they contain.

 

[Nevada Ed]

My turn............

Bullseye will work in the 357 Magnum.
With a full maximum load, it will give you all it's got at it's maximum safe pressure.

Just that medium burn rate powders will do the same with less pressure and a little more fps.

The slowest powders will have lower pressures than Bullseye and give you the maximum fps for a 357 Magnum with safe pressures and data.

Nothing wrong with Bullseye in a 357 Magnum, for what it can do.
I just like powders that fill the case more, for safey reasons.

 

[alwslate]

Well Ed as the saying goes "you pays your money and takes your choice". For those who are satisfied with mid range loads in the .357 of around 1050-1150 FPS you pays a bit less of your money if you use Bullseye at 5.8-6.5 grs rather than reduced loads of around 12.0 grs of 2400

 

[mikld]

When I was shooting a lot of 44 Magnum loads(there was an indoor range just 5 minutes away and I'd shoot maybe 100-150 rounds per week) I could easily tell/feel the Bullseye, W231 loads from Unique, 2400, etc. by the recoil. Bullseye was a sharp "snap" in my hand,and the Unique loads were more like a "thump" (like a 6 oz plastic mallet vs a 20 oz. ball peen hammer). I got some realy good accuracy with Bullseye, mid to upper book loads, under a 240 LSWC in my Dan Wesson 44H...

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Bullseye loads are listed in a variety of manuals with pressure listed as CUP or PSI with original Hercules and Alliant data which is much more recent. ALL loads with Bullseye, regardless of how the pressure was listed have always been within industry standards for the .357 magnum and all other ctgs. So assuming you're a Handloader who's capable of only charging a case with the amount of powder you want what are you taking a chance on? And in that respect what's the difference between Bullseye and any other powder?

Do you enjoy being argumentative, you seem to do it a lot. Not everyone can be right all the time but you seem to think you are. I'm not talking as a Mod right now, just another member. IMO you should allow for different opinions other than yours.

 

[AzShooter]

My turn............

Bullseye will work in the 357 Magnum.
With a full maximum load, it will give you all it's got at it's maximum safe pressure.

Just that medium burn rate powders will do the same with less pressure and a little more fps.

The slowest powders will have lower pressures than Bullseye and give you the maximum fps for a 357 Magnum with safe pressures and data.

Nothing wrong with Bullseye in a 357 Magnum, for what it can do.
I just like powders that fill the case more, for safey reasons.

Trail Boss is one of the best powders. I was surprised when I first started using it. Basic data is to load the case 3/4 fill and you have a load. Very low pressure signs and very accurate.

It may not give you the velocity you are looking for.

 

[Nevada Ed]

At one time I wanted SPEED..............

then I became a penny pincher...........

Then nothing but the best accuracy.........

In my "Silver years", I am now liking medium to low recoil loads
for 96% of my shooting needs.

It's all good.

Just glad to be able to enjoy popping primers, of any type at my age.

PS;
and I don't use 2400 for reduced loads.............
that is a wase of good full power, powder, in my mind.

However I will sacrafice some HS-6 if needed.

 

[alwslate]

Do you enjoy being argumentative, you seem to do it a lot. Not everyone can be right all the time but you seem to think you are. I'm not talking as a Mod right now, just another member. IMO you should allow for different opinions other than yours.

No I do not enjoy being argumentative, in fact I hate it. But in the reloading forum especially there is a tremendous amount of opinion posted as factual that is just plain wrong. I am not right all the time. I do however have a thing about irrational fear and try to shine a bit light into the darkness. It is common on here for people to ask a question and get ten responses expressing opinions that have no relationship to the OP's question. If I seem to be argumentative it is that I just hate to see someone ask a question where they think the "experts" are and get a boatload of opinions and virtually no facts. I guess that does set me in opposition to other members at times. Opinions are one thing, false information is another. If I could have one wish it would be for the handloaders on here to just read their manuals to be better informed for their sake and for the sake of others.

 

[AJ]

At one time I wanted SPEED..............

then I became a penny pincher...........

Then nothing but the best accuracy.........

In my "Silver years", I am now liking medium to low recoil loads
for 96% of my shooting needs.

It's all good.

Just glad to be able to enjoy popping primers, of any type at my age.

PS;
and I don't use 2400 for reduced loads.............
that is a wase of good full power, powder, in my mind.

However I will sacrifice some HS-6 if needed.

I did the same as time went by. When way younger it was power and lots of it. Then I shot IPSC and economy as was paying for my own ammo to practice with. Now it is accuracy as I get older. But also I spend a lot of time socializing, in fact more time spent talking than shooting.

 

[AJ]

I just checked in Speer 8 (oh NO , NOT That ! ) , their 357 magnum load using a 158 gr swc and Bullseye powder . The starting load is listed as 3.5 grs and max of 4.7 . Alliants current load data is 4.8 grs as a max . Like I have said before that Speer #8 is better than some give it credit for . Regards Paul

If I remember I will check my Phillip Sharpe reloading manual to see what his loads for the .357 were. He helped Wesson develop that round in the 30's.

 

[rockquarry]

No I do not enjoy being argumentative, in fact I hate it. But in the reloading forum especially there is a tremendous amount of opinion posted as factual that is just plain wrong. I am not right all the time. I do however have a thing about irrational fear and try to shine a bit light into the darkness. It is common on here for people to ask a question and get ten responses expressing opinions that have no relationship to the OP's question. If I seem to be argumentative it is that I just hate to see someone ask a question where they think the "experts" are and get a boatload of opinions and virtually no facts. I guess that does set me in opposition to other members at times. Opinions are one thing, false information is another. If I could have one wish it would be for the handloaders on here to just read their manuals to be better informed for their sake and for the sake of others.

You mentioned some good points and I'm in agreement. However, many today, especially those lacking a firm handloading background, search out (often dubious) shortcuts for instant and cheap results and believe that all information they would ever need is available online.

These folks unknowingly handicap themselves by not reading manuals and not examining the load data printed in them. It takes time and the books aren't free (nor are they expensive), but it's time and money well spent. There is some useful handloading information and load data online, but much of it is not available there.

A handloader can't have too many manuals.

 

[alwslate]

rockquarry I agree with you 100%. Many Handloaders today, probably younger ones, think whatever you find online is the greatest and the latest and don't want to spend the money and the time to acquire and read manuals. There is a tremendous amount of information in manuals that you can't know just by looking up load data online.
I just checked my most recent Lyman Cast Bullet manual, #4 , which is the most recent one I believe. It was printed in 2012. It lists 7.0 grs of Bullseye with a 150 cast SWC at 36,900 CUP which is the lowest pressure of any powder listed. They also show 7.0 grs with their 158 gr gas check SWC at 39,600 CUP, again the lowest pressure of any powder used with that bullet. The CUP limit for the .357 was 46,000 CUP but most manuals stopped at around 42,000 as did Lyman. And again, you can't have too many manuals.

 

[AJ]

As I wrote before I would look in my oldest reloading manual. This is "COMPLETE GUIDE TO HANDLOADING" by Phillip B. Sharpe. It is copyrighted 1937. Sharpe gives for the 158 grain lead 3.5 to 6.0 grains of Bullseye with velocities from 850 FPS to 1210 FPS. I myself would not use more than about 4.0 grains of Bullseye. I would prefer to use Unique or 2400 for hotter loads.

 

[AlHunt]

I think the distinction here is OP talked about "full magnum" loads, which aren't achievable with Bullseye. A max load of Bullseye isn't going to achieve "full magnum" velocities.

 

[alwslate]

For those who like velocities in the 1,000 FPS range in their .357s with a 158 gr cast SWC consider the following loads chronographed out of my 4" model 27-2. Winchester brass and SPM primer, 158 gr magma style cast SWC.

5.3 grs Bullseye vel-1012 FPS , ES-14 FPS
5.7 grs : vel-1057 FPS, ES-26 FPS
6.1 grs. : vel-1089 FPS, ES-31 FPS

Great clean burning consistent loads.

 

[alwslate]

Some people come on here and say they want to try the full .357 magnum loads. After they try a few they usually quickly change their minds. I don't have any reason to load full .357 loads and I prefer loads in the 1050-1200 FPS range myself. But I have loaded the .357 to full potential in the past and for those who want to do so here's a couple of loads that I have chronographed from my trusty 4" mod 27-2 that DO NOT exceed published data or pressure maximums.
Winchester brass and magnum primers and a 158 gr plain cast SWC, no coating or plating, firm roll crimp in the crimping groove.

14.2 grs of 2400 avg vel 1348 FPS
17.4 grs of Win 296 avg vel 1440 FPS
Recoil with the 296 load was a bit snappy even in my N frame. More than I need from my .357s these days but try them if you want.

 

[sjs]

As the OP I will clarify a few things.

I also used 110 and 2400, when I had them. I am out. But I keep looking for slow powders, just can't find any at the moment.

I do have Bullseye, hence the question.

I am like many and shoot more 38 in my 357 but also like to shoot 357 and my particular revolvers seem to be more accurate with loads just a little below max. I used to shoot a little silhouette and I used to hunt large game with a revolver so even though I am in my 70's I am not all that uncomfortable shooting strong loads.

I do not rely on the internet for my loads, I do read and use manuals, but I do enjoy increasing my understanding of loading by hearing the insights, experience and views of others. My original question was merely why there was such a difference between the manuals, and I got some good answers

I also note that responders often discuss things not actually asked about by the OP, but I happen to enjoy hearing all of the comments, and I usually learn something even by those not directly relevant to my question.

And for those who like to argue, well, I even enjoy reading those and I learn from them as well.

So, thank you to all who took the time to share your thoughts.

 

[stansdds]

Yes, for full power 357 Magnum loads you need a slow powder. 2400, AA#9, and H-110/W-296 immediately come to my mind. I have quite a bit of load development with H-110/W-296 and it will wring everything possible out of the 357 Magnum cartridge. A stiff load of this powder under a 125 grain jacketed bullet is loud and the flash can make anyone on either side of you on the firing line back away or just pack up and leave. Full power 357 Magnum can be a real blast.

 

[rockquarry]

As the OP I will clarify a few things.

I also used 110 and 2400, when I had them. I am out. But I keep looking for slow powders, just can't find any at the moment.

I do have Bullseye, hence the question.

I am like many and shoot more 38 in my 357 but also like to shoot 357 and my particular revolvers seem to be more accurate with loads just a little below max. I used to shoot a little silhouette and I used to hunt large game with a revolver so even though I am in my 70's I am not all that uncomfortable shooting strong loads.

I do not rely on the internet for my loads, I do read and use manuals, but I do enjoy increasing my understanding of loading by hearing the insights, experience and views of others. My original question was merely why there was such a difference between the manuals, and I got some good answers

I also note that responders often discuss things not actually asked about by the OP, but I happen to enjoy hearing all of the comments, and I usually learn something even by those not directly relevant to my question.

And for those who like to argue, well, I even enjoy reading those and I learn from them as well.

So, thank you to all who took the time to share your thoughts.

I apologize for going off thread regarding your post. As for argument, a point can usually be made without it.