9mm: The Caliber For Everyone.

dsk said:
I've always been struck by how the 9mm Luger is considered a weenie cartridge here in America, yet the rest of the world doesn't have any complaints about its stopping power. Maybe we tend to rumble with tougher bad guys than the Brits and Australians do?
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I think its because we have a huge market for guns and a thriving press feeding it. You must have new guns and new ammo to feed the beast. You own a 9mm? That won't kill anything you need a (insert caliber here). Ball ammo? Are you insane? You need a bullet made of tiny shot suspended in liquid Teflon!

If you are a regular person sitting around France or Belgium its highly unlikely you care about the temporary crush cavity of the latest .357 Sig round.

Same with their cops. They know if you shoot someone between the nips with a .32, .380, or 9mm ball round they will tip over.

My take, anyway.
 
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All service calibers work the same on bad guys.

If there were any real difference, we wouldn't be having these arguments. The clear winner would have swamped out the others long ago.

We don't argue the merits of .25 ACP vs .50 AE, do we? That's because both these cartridges have demonstrated themselves to be impractical forr self defense, beyond question.

.40 is 1/50" larger in radius than 9mm. Will that determine whether you live or die on the streets of Big City USA?

It's all about placement and penetration.

Shooters need to get serious and focus on the important stuff.
 
Univibe said:
It's all about placement and penetration.
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But that's not what you really believe. Your previous posts have made it clear that you are convinced that self defense is best achieved with high capacity magazines, suppressive fire, and serpentine movement, without regard to accuracy . . .

If it's all about placement and penetration, I'll take my 340PD all day . . .
 
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Muss Muggins said:
But that's not what you really believe. Your previous posts have made it clear that you are convinced that self defense is best achieved with high capacity magazines, suppressive fire, and serpentine movement, without regard to accuracy . . .

If it's all about placement and penetration, I'll take my 340PD all day . . .
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I never said that. All the other factors you mentioned that I said can indeed make all the difference, depending on the situation.

High cap guns are indeed better than the other kind, if you need more ammo.

Suppressive fire may come into play with multiple assailants.

Movement makes it much harder for you to shoot, but also much harder for you to be hit.

Once the shot is fired, it is indeed all about placement and penetration.

And all the shooting skill in the world can't substitute for ammo, when you need ammo.
 
No 9mm hate from me, though it think it's a dumb carbine cartridge. Past 8 or 9 inches it gains nothing with most loads.

I always love to hear the guys who swear by a .357 snub but wouldn't carry a 9mm +P subcompact when the ballistics are essentially the same. I do know this group is a dying breed, unfortunately literally.
 
In my time here I have come to understand what our former Rez Fed and our member from Flyover Country have tried to boil the caliber war down to...

'Punch a few holes "between the nips" and that nice feller will quickly decide that he needs to be somewhere else.'

They never preached what size hole to punch.
 
I'm not adverse to 9mm handguns, I have 8 or 9 of them plus a CZ Scorpion PCC....but I'm completely comfortable and confident with a 38/357 revolver as an EDC.
 
dsk said:
I've always been struck by how the 9mm Luger is considered a weenie cartridge here in America, yet the rest of the world doesn't have any complaints about its stopping power. Maybe we tend to rumble with tougher bad guys than the Brits and Australians do?
Click to expand...

A LOT of people here in the US are 6"+ thicker than humans elsewhere.

9 is fine I suppose, in a .357 SIG
 
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Racer X said:
A LOT of people here in the US are 6"+ thicker than humans elsewhere.
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Now, this is seldom observed, but there's some truth in this: Americans are the biggest, toughest people on Planet Earth.

I'm not talking about the big obese ones that look like water balloons (although they can be trouble too).

No. When you travel around public spaces, watch people. I'm just about exactly average in size and weight for a European-American male. And some of the people around me are as big as refrigerators. There are thugs out there that look like NFL football players. It can be scary.

We don't really see this until travelling in a foreign country. I've done a bit of that. Latin America, western Europe, eastern Europe. I'm at least as big as most of the people in those places, and you see very few if any truly huge people. Deplane here, stop at a gas station, and chances are you'll see really big people and start noticing them. Sometimes I wonder why that is.

Try it. Look at the sizes of people around you in public places. Some are very big and strong.

Michael Brown of Ferguson MO fame was what, 18 years old? I have his autopsy report. He was 6 feet 5 inches and 296 pounds. He was within the size and weight range of NFL offensive linemen. A bit lighter than the average one, but he could have fit into a pro football line. He pushed around that storekeeper like a rag doll.


Now y'all see why I carry +P FMJ in the G19.
 
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