ATF resurrecting proposed regulation of SBR's and braces

[RCL-09]

BTW IMHO laws passed by Congress regulating or even banning pistol braces and bumpstocks are just a variant on laws regulating and banning machine guns. Whether one thinks that such laws are valid under the Constitution is a matter about which reasonable people could differ...

I disagree with that logic/argument and it goes beyond the Constitutional argument.

Just because a law is passed does not mean it is logical, reasonable, sensible or based on reality. It does not mean that there is a real purpose behind it or that the stated purpose is true.

In this case we are presented with the banning/control of an inanimate object in order to curb violent crime. That is a fools errand.

This type of law, malum prohibitum, comes out of fear, ignorance and dishonesty.

 

[Echo40]

Just out of curiosity, does he wear it around the house strapped to his arm in case someone decides to kick his door in?

I don't think I would take the time to mount it in a case like that.

I believe that my brother has it rigged in such a way that he can just slip his arm in and fasten it down at a moments notice.
Besides, he has two dogs and his bedroom is on the second floor, so I imagine that he'd have ample time to grab it, strap it on, and point it at the bedroom door in the event of a break in, assuming the intruder(s) were determined enough to fight with two dogs to get to him in the first place.

 

[Sistema1927]

... but given the fact that they are relatively uncommon...

Estimated that there are somewhere between 10 and 30 million pistol braces in circulation. And a whopping total of two instances where they were abused.

 

[bushmaster1313]

Estimated that there are somewhere between 10 and 30 million pistol braces in circulation. And a whopping total of two instances where they were abused.

You may be right
What is your source
How many ar15 pistols out there
How many rifles
Wikipedia says 5 to 10 million ar15 rilfles

 

[Sistema1927]

You may be right
What is your source
How many ar15 pistols out there
How many rifles
Wikipedia says 5 to 10 million ar15 rilfles

My understanding is that Wikipedia is way off track, and that there are many more AR rifles (Modern Sporting Rifles) in circulation. In 2018, NSSF believed there were 16 million. Last year the number was around 20 million. I still think that the numbers are probably much higher, with background checks continually setting new records and many people getting theirs before another ban.

The truth is, nobody really knows. The brace number that I quoted comes from estimations by those who have been selling them. Now, I know that they have a vested interest in inflating numbers, but I am personally in possession of four of them for three different pistols. I don't guess that I am alone in this regard.

 

[bushmaster1313]

My understanding is that Wikipedia is way off track, and that there are many more AR rifles (Modern Sporting Rifles) in circulation. In 2018, NSSF believed there were 16 million. Last year the number was around 20 million. I still think that the numbers are probably much higher, with background checks continually setting new records and many people getting theirs before another ban.

The truth is, nobody really knows. The brace number that I quoted comes from estimations by those who have been selling them. Now, I know that they have a vested interest in inflating numbers, but I am personally in possession of four of them for three different pistols. I don't guess that I am alone in this regard.

I agree that Wikipedia is probably purposefully deflating the number. But even if 30 million AR rifles, I would expect far fewer AR pistols and even fewer pistol braces. Personally I have never seen an AR pistol on any trip to the outdoor range I frequent in Pennsylvania. IMHO I think a government lawyer could make a strong case that pistol braces are not common. YMMV.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Anybody can edit Wikipedia. They even let me have a password. What number do you want . . . ?

My understanding is that Wikipedia is way off track, and that there are many more AR rifles (Modern Sporting Rifles) in circulation. In 2018, NSSF believed there were 16 million. Last year the number was around 20 million. I still think that the numbers are probably much higher, with background checks continually setting new records and many people getting theirs before another ban.

The truth is, nobody really knows. The brace number that I quoted comes from estimations by those who have been selling them. Now, I know that they have a vested interest in inflating numbers, but I am personally in possession of four of them for three different pistols. I don't guess that I am alone in this regard.

 

[Sub sailor]

Has anyone heard any updates on pending “guidance” from the ATF on pistol braces? Somebody told me that in August ATF wanted to issue more rules but it was just second hand information.

 

[Racer X]

Has anyone heard any updates on pending “guidance” from the ATF on pistol braces? Somebody told me that in August ATF wanted to issue more rules but it was just second hand information.

I read in an e-mail blast from one of the pro-2A organizations maybe around June. Wish I remembered more.

If the Republicans hold as much "power" as everyone claims they do, why hasn't the ATF been reigned in with regard to their de facto law making?

 

[CH4]

I spoke to ATF’s Dan Hoffman at SHOT. Brace/SBR should be published in August, bump stocks in June.

 

[delcrossv]

.....

People are so absorbed with arguing the legal terms and definitions, they forget to consider whether or not these things should be regulated in this manner at all. In my humble opinion, only rule that might stand up to reason is full auto machine guns, Bazookas, Mortars, Tanks, etc...Other than that they should have no regulatory authority.

Remember, at the time the 2nd Amendment was adopted, there were privately owned cannons. IMO any restriction by "type" is unconstitutional. The NFA was a lame attempt to "do something".

 

[John_M52]

It's a work around... if a stabilized firearm is usable like an SBR it should be treated the same under the law...

Not trying to be rude but but we are under a full assault and every millimeter you give they will take 1,000 yards.

Next up... 8" or longer pistols held by a competent marksman are just as lethal as an SBR and should be teated as such. Pistols with barrel lengths less than 8" are Saturday night specials and need to be banned. Any semiautomatic pistol is a weapon of war and need to be banned.

We need to stick together in pushing back on ANY restriction/redefinition. My father was a purest bullseye competitor. He hated "black" rifles. He couldn't see why any mag should hold more than 5 rounds. After all, they weren't coming for his guns.

There is no reasoning with the anti-gun left. They are fanatics and will never be satisfied.

 

[John_M52]

Over the years I have learned that I need not fear sociopathic and violent criminals, or homicidal and suicidal miscreants... no these are the things I must fear...

Legally owned and registered machineguns

Legally owned and registered SBRs, SBS, and AOW.

Legally owned and registered Destructive Devices (the horrifying Street Sweeper)

Big, large capacity handguns.

Small concealable handguns.

The horrifying "pocket rockets".

Powerful handguns.

Plastic/invisible handguns (you know, the Glock that was made specifically for terrorists).

Handguns that may have a forward grip.

Sniper rifles.

Fifty caliber rifles (.49 caliber are ok).

Assault rifles.

Semi automatic rifles.

Rifles with specific names (Galil, UZI, AR15,...)

Guns with bayonet lugs, flash hiders, pistol grips, folding stocks, detachable magazines, etc.

Bump stocks.

Pistol braces.

Things that take lots of bullets (10 rounds, 7 rounds,...)

Hollow point bullets.

Armor piercing bullets.

Unsafe bullets.

Cop killer bullets.


Lets stop this piecemeal provision of safety and just ban them all at once! I'll feel so much safer then.

you forgot grenade/flare launchers

 

[scoobysnacker]

I spoke to ATF’s Dan Hoffman at SHOT. Brace/SBR should be published in August, bump stocks in June.

I've seen mention of this timeline, really hard to find anything on it.

Most places that discuss this, the thread quickly devolves into anti-ATF venting, and questions about what would be acceptable are ignored or lost in the chafe.

I'm curious, because the fin-with-strap configuration seems fine, if you can find a fin of the acceptable length.

 

[CH4]

I forgot to mention that arm braces won’t be outlawed, it’ll be the overall configuration of the gun that they’ll look at. There’s a draft matrix that walks you through the determination process. I have it in PDF, but I am not able to copy and paste it here.

Edit: here are pictures of the PDF:

 

[reddog81]

I forgot to mention that arm braces won’t be outlawed, it’ll be the overall configuration of the gun that they’ll look at. There’s a draft matrix that walks you through the determination process. I have it in PDF, but I am not able to copy and paste it here.

Have you read the PDF? Which braces would remain viable options?

 

[TX-Dennis]

From my reading of the proposed rule, the only "acceptable" brace will be the fin type, but only if the base doesn't "look" like a shoulder stock. I'm guessing any flat surface bigger than necessary to encompass the diameter of the gas tube itself will be considered to "look" like a shoulder stock. Oh, and it evidently can't be adjustable in length, either. Now, again, this is from my reading of their point system (which contains imprecise and confusing language IMO), and my interpretation of it could be off somewhat.

 

[CH4]

Have you read the PDF? Which braces would remain viable options?

Here's the worksheet:

 

[reddog81]

Here's the worksheet:

Which braces would remain viable options?

Hint - It's not many...

 

[Old_Cop]

Is the work sheet for agents or end users?