Mag Question 4513TSW vs 4516

[ACEd]

So I have now acquired a late 4513TSW with a single 7 rd mag. This is my first S&W 45 - plenty of 9's and 40's and a 10 so I am not new to 3rd Gen, just the 45 variants.

It turns out I have 2 other mags I acquired in a bunch of mags - one a NIP S&W 190740000 7 rd for All S&W 4516 and a used magazine with red/orange follower marked 4516 only, NOT 4516-1 or other variants.

I was told that the 4516 and 4513TSW mags should interchange, but now I am concerned. Can someone clarify whether or not either of these mags will work properly with a late 4513TSW.

I also have acquired 2 4506(?) 8 rd mags - one with a plastic base and black follower, the other with a metal base and red/orange follower. They fit the pistol but obviously stick out - are either of these usable or do I need to trade for a shorter mag (and does it have to be 4513 or will 4516 work?

I found an old thread about 4506 mags which explains Red/Orange to Yellow to Black followers - does same applu to 4516 mags?

I know someone here can put me on the right track.

Thanks in advance, Ed

 

[18DAI]

Congrats on the 4513TSW. Great 45!

Yes, all the OEM 7 round mags - even those laser etched with various warnings, like "Use only in 4516-1", will work in the later production 4513TSW with the longer grip frame. Regardless of the color of the follower. That said, if carrying the 4513TSW, I only use the last revision follower, the black one.

At the range, my range mags have red, yellow and black followers. All of them function just fine. Hope this helps. Regards 18DAI

 

[squidsix]

Springs and followers are the same part number in all sizes of 4500 magazine, from CS45 to 4506.
The 457/4513/4516/Shorty 45 magazines, 7-rounds, can be, in my testing, swapped from gun to gun to gun regardless of the nonsense written about followers without ill result.
The 645/745/845/4506 magazine can be used in any 45 series pistol from CS45 to 4506 and will protrude from the grip.
I use a sleeve I worked up from a 10-round Promag to fill that space. Feels better than it looks.
The black magazine follower is backwards compatible with all generations of 45 series magazine, and it is the “latest” follower. It is also used in the 945 pistols.
The black plastic floorplate is also the most modern and backward compatible with all generations of 4500 mag. You may need to add a floorplate catch to hold it in place.
There are at least two types of steel floorplate for these guns also. One is like the plastic one, with a centered hole in the bottom and a floorplate catch holds it in the mag body. One has a small segment of steel that catches in a recess in the bottom of the magazine.
I cannot tell from your images which one you have, but they all work just fine.

 

[ACEd]

OK - next question - how does the value of the 4506 mag compare to the 4516/4513 magazine? There were some NOS 4513TSW 7rd mags on GB last month for $29 ea - and I have seen the 4506 go $50+. No 4513 7rd out there today. Any good sources? Is a trade practical?

 

[squidsix]

The 4513tsw mags will not work in your pistol. They are the same mag as the CS45, with a different floorplate. They hold six rounds and will not lock in place in the 457/4516 size 7-round pistol.
The magazines you seek are out there, but you should expect to pay $50+ For them. I bought about a dozen last year and paid $40-50 each. I would pay $60 for new condition mags in the latest configuration, if I needed them.
They have gone up a bit recently, like everything else.

 

[18DAI]

I would point out that the ORIGINAL, rail free 4513TSW, 6-ROUND mags, will not work in the later production 4513TSW with the FULL GRIP FRAME.

Because the later variant, as my friend squidsix points out, uses the same 7-round mag as the 4516 models. Regards 18DAI

 

[squidsix]

Good point. I believe the shortened frame, rail, and floorplate change were concurrent. I wanted one of those short frame versions before I made up a couple of flush-fitting magazines. Those brought the frame to the same overall length.
With a flush fitting steel floorplate magazine, which S&W never made for the 7-round guns, the overall height of the 4516 is the same as the 4513TSW.
What surprises me was that they never made such a mag, but made the steel-bottomed 7-round flush 9mm mag for the 3913 around the same time.

 

[ACEd]

I would point out that the ORIGINAL, rail free 4513TSW, 6-ROUND mags, will not work in the later production 4513TSW with the FULL GRIP FRAME.

Because the later variant, as my friend squidsix points out, uses the same 7-round mag as the 4516 models. Regards 18DAI

I understand there are 2 variants of the 4513TSW - the early one with the notched grip and 6rd mag and the later one with the regular grip like the 4516 and the 7rd mag.

And I understand the early 4513TSW 6rd mags will not work.

But what I take from the discussion so far is the late 4516 mags P/N 190740000 with the ES-1 marking and black floorplate and follower are the same as the 7rd 4513TSW mags, even though the package is not labelled for the 4513TSW

And pretty much all the 7rd and 8rd mags will work accepting that the 8rd will stick out.

 

[squidsix]

You are absolutely correct.

 

[ACEd]

So getting back to the other part of my question, are the 8rd 4506 mags more sought after than the 7rd 4516 (in the same follower color). I have seen the 4513TSW 6rd and the 4516 7rd NOS on GB in last month for $29 ea - bad timing on my part, but the now 4516 are $49+ on eBat but 4506 seem to be more expensive.

 

[squidsix]

Way more 645, 745, 845, and 4506 pistols than 457, 4513, 4516s.
So yes, the 8-round magazine is more expensive. This wasnt always the case. I remember paying $45 for 7-round mags and $25 for 8-rounders years ago, but thats no longer true.
This may change again eventually, but I would just assume its gonna cost $60 per mag now.
After paying $150 each for Colt 1903 .380 mags for a while, and more for Sig 220 .38 Super mags, you get in the mindset that you buy a dozen or so, and wont have to think about it for a while.
Its painful, but this is the price of owning an out-of-production pistol. I typically double the assumed purchase price to include mags and holsters for guns like these.
Wait till you get a 10mm 3rd gen. Or make a compact 10mm from a 4013!

 

[dmar]

I ran into a 4513 mag at a gun show today, vendor wanted $50. I didn’t need it, I was looking for a mag for my 645.

The good news is that I ran into a guy at another table that had two 645 mags! Unreal, as you hardly ever find those mags around anymore, and when you do they’re expensive.

I asked him what he could do on the price if I bought both. He paused a moment, looked at me in my eyes, and said, “$25 each.” Couldn’t get my money out fast enough…! He was a nice guy, and wasn’t looking to gouge me. He had bought a 645 from someone, and these were the extra mags. He said he could get at least $60 on EBay for them, but let me have them at a fair price. He had $800 on the 645, it was in good, not great shape.

 

[ACEd]

Way more 645, 745, 845, and 4506 pistols than 457, 4513, 4516s.
So yes, the 8-round magazine is more expensive. This wasnt always the case. I remember paying $45 for 7-round mags and $25 for 8-rounders years ago, but thats no longer true.
This may change again eventually, but I would just assume its gonna cost $60 per mag now.
After paying $150 each for Colt 1903 .380 mags for a while, and more for Sig 220 .38 Super mags, you get in the mindset that you buy a dozen or so, and wont have to think about it for a while.
Its painful, but this is the price of owning an out-of-production pistol. I typically double the assumed purchase price to include mags and holsters for guns like these.
Wait till you get a 10mm 3rd gen. Or make a compact 10mm from a 4013!

I know what you mean - Fortunately the 1076 I have came with 10 mags - at current prices I could sell the mags for what I have in the package.
$50 would be OK but $50 + $10 shipping + tax now $65. Now I need to find someone who wants to trade 2 4506 for 2 4516.
Best, Ed