UncleEd
Member
The Guarrdian and other sources are now reporting that the soldiers from Azovstal will, however. be interrogated to weed out any Nazis....
That would be related to the
Azov Battalion which had its
roots with the Nazis.
The Russians have gone in
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That would be related to the
Azov Battalion which had its
roots with the Nazis.
Yes. I knew they were pretty right-wing even now... but I guess that falls in line with Putin's fixation on "Nazis."
The Guardian report also states,
Russian investigators have said they plan to interrogate the soldiers and could charge them with "crimes committed by the Ukrainian regime against the civilian population in south-east Ukraine"...
Putin's spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, promised that the fighters who surrendered would be treated "in accordance with international standards", but this was immediately undermined by statements from two other Russian officials.Leonid Slutsky, a Russian MP who took part in negotiations with Ukraine earlier in the war, suggested Russia should lift its moratorium on the death penalty for fighters from the Azov regiment, one of the main forces defending the steelworks, calling them "animals in human form"...
Putin's spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, promised that the fighters who surrendered would be treated "in accordance with international standards", but this was immediately undermined by statements from two other Russian officials.Leonid Slutsky, a Russian MP who took part in negotiations with Ukraine earlier in the war, suggested Russia should lift its moratorium on the death penalty for fighters from the Azov regiment, one of the main forces defending the steelworks, calling them "animals in human form"...
Hmmm... weren't Russian soldiers accused of being animals during WWII?
The latest updates from The Guardian can be found here.
The young tank commander who shot a civilian has pleaded guilty, and Russia claims another 694 more soldiers have surrendeded from the Azovstal plant...
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bigwheelzip
Absent Comrade
It's official. That's the NATO Secretary General, holding applications submitted to join the alliance from both Finland and Sweden.
Hopefully Turkey will be satisfied with a pound of flesh, and the process can be expedited.
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Hopefully Turkey will be satisfied with a pound of flesh, and the process can be expedited.
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bigwheelzip
Absent Comrade
Ukraine released drone footage that purports to show two Russian tanks being destroyed yesterday by a two rocket salvo of the recently arrived British-supplied Brimstone missiles.
If true, these are the first ever battle kills for the Brimstone.
These vehicle launched supersonic Brimstones are fire & forget. They have intelligence to be salvo fired, then independently hunt targets, plan attack with a multi-charge warhead to defeat active armor, and the range to keep the launcher beyond tank return fire.
British Brimstone missiles filmed destroying Russian tanks
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If true, these are the first ever battle kills for the Brimstone.
These vehicle launched supersonic Brimstones are fire & forget. They have intelligence to be salvo fired, then independently hunt targets, plan attack with a multi-charge warhead to defeat active armor, and the range to keep the launcher beyond tank return fire.
British Brimstone missiles filmed destroying Russian tanks
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Russians have a poor track record in slaughtering prisoners.
A commission set up by the West German government found that 3,060,000 German military personnel were taken prisoner by the USSR and that 1,094,250 died in captivity (549,360 from 1941 to April 1945; 542,911 from May 1945 to June 1950 and 1,979 from July 1950 to 1955).
Marching into Darkness, 2014, p.59
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Yes!!!! The number of GIs " lost" in Russian pow camps would shock one, and they were our " allies". US has a very POOR record concerning our pow's recovery.
bigwheelzip
Absent Comrade
Saw numerous reports from varied sources, that the M-777 Howitzers are being put to very effective use all along the front lines, by the freshly trained artillerymen of Ukraine.
They were substantially credited with the recent massive destruction of Russians attempting to cross a temporary river bridge.
There are reports that several countries are supplying substantial numbers of the most accurate, GPS guided, Excalibur shells, capable of sub-two-meter accuracy at 25 miles range.
This message of thanks was posted on Twitter by the head of Ukraine's Armed Forces, after the Howitzer bombardment of the failed Russian river crossing.
"CinC AF of Ukraine: Special greetings and thanks from our artillerymen to the American people for the M777 howitzer. My guys know the price of artillery. First of all, they wanted to convey that this is a high-precision and very effective weapon. Together to Victory!"
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They were substantially credited with the recent massive destruction of Russians attempting to cross a temporary river bridge.
There are reports that several countries are supplying substantial numbers of the most accurate, GPS guided, Excalibur shells, capable of sub-two-meter accuracy at 25 miles range.
This message of thanks was posted on Twitter by the head of Ukraine's Armed Forces, after the Howitzer bombardment of the failed Russian river crossing.
"CinC AF of Ukraine: Special greetings and thanks from our artillerymen to the American people for the M777 howitzer. My guys know the price of artillery. First of all, they wanted to convey that this is a high-precision and very effective weapon. Together to Victory!"
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Not to mention the B52 EWOs shot down over N. Vietnam. All sent to the USSR never to be heard from again.
bigwheelzip
Absent Comrade
Saw this statement about weapons recently delivered to Ukraine from Germany, accompanied by a photo of hardware I didn't recognize.
"1,600 anti-tank mines DM22, 3,000 anti-tank mines DM31, and 2,450 portable anti-tank guided missile systems RGW 90, better known among the German troops as Matador ATGM."
It turns out that the mystery hardware is what was described as a mine. I thought mines were buried, but this mine class is a tripod mounted anti-tank rocket. It's triggered either by remote control or by the crushing of a fiber optic line.
Effective against up to 30" of armor, including reactive armor, from a range up to 100 yards.
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"1,600 anti-tank mines DM22, 3,000 anti-tank mines DM31, and 2,450 portable anti-tank guided missile systems RGW 90, better known among the German troops as Matador ATGM."
It turns out that the mystery hardware is what was described as a mine. I thought mines were buried, but this mine class is a tripod mounted anti-tank rocket. It's triggered either by remote control or by the crushing of a fiber optic line.
Effective against up to 30" of armor, including reactive armor, from a range up to 100 yards.
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bigwheelzip
Absent Comrade
The Australian government just announced it is sending another 14 M113 Armoured Personnel Carriers (APCs) and a further 20 Bushmaster Protected Mobility Vehicles (PMVs) to Ukraine.
Additionally, Australia will deliver 60 pallets of medical supplies.
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Additionally, Australia will deliver 60 pallets of medical supplies.
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John Patrick
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Nazis are leftists. Nazi party's official name: National Socialist German Workers' Party.
Well, in name only, "Socialist... Workers" being the trick in the name, which would suggest left/communist/socialist, but they were far right. (see Wikipedia entry, also Reddit, and Jewish Virtual Library)
Irrespective of orientation, the Russians still think they're "Nazis" which doesn't bode well for the Azov soldiers
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UncleEd
Member
Nice try but in actual historical
context not leftist, that context
dying early on in the 20th
Century. Into the 1930s it
was definitely anti leftist and
references today still mean
that.
Nope. They were fascists, the extreme right, like Mussolini's fascists and Generalissimo Franco's Falangists.
Fascism is a far-right political philosophy, or theory of government, that emerged in the early twentieth century. Fascism prioritizes the nation over the individual, who exists to serve the nation. While fascist movements could be found in almost every country following World War I, fascism was most successful in Italy and Germany. Fascism | Holocaust Encyclopedia
Added:
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. - Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)
He was a prominent Protestant pastor who emerged as an outspoken public foe of Adolf Hitler and spent the last seven years of Nazi rule in concentration camps, despite his ardent nationalism.
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Russian soldier asks victim's family for forgiveness in Ukraine court
WaPo article & short video here (free access)
WaPo article & short video here (free access)
A Russian soldier asked the widow of a slain Ukrainian civilian for "forgiveness" in a dramatic Kyiv court session Thursday, as the trial of two other Russian soldiers began in central Ukraine....
...In one exchange, the man's widow, Kateryna Shelipova, asked him, "Please tell me, what did you feel toward my husband?" Shishimarin responded: "Yes, I admit guilt. I understand that you will not be able to forgive me. I ask for forgiveness for what was done."
...Shelipova went on: "What did you come to us for? You came to protect us? From whom? You 'protected' me from my husband, whom you killed."
"I received an order from our command to move as part of the column," Shishimarin said. "And what there would be beyond that, I did not know."...
...The widow asked the court to impose a life sentence, the maximum punishment for those charges, but said she would support his being part of a prisoner exchange for some of the Ukrainian soldiers who are in Russian custody after their months-long defense of the Mariupol steel plant....
...In one exchange, the man's widow, Kateryna Shelipova, asked him, "Please tell me, what did you feel toward my husband?" Shishimarin responded: "Yes, I admit guilt. I understand that you will not be able to forgive me. I ask for forgiveness for what was done."
...Shelipova went on: "What did you come to us for? You came to protect us? From whom? You 'protected' me from my husband, whom you killed."
"I received an order from our command to move as part of the column," Shishimarin said. "And what there would be beyond that, I did not know."...
...The widow asked the court to impose a life sentence, the maximum punishment for those charges, but said she would support his being part of a prisoner exchange for some of the Ukrainian soldiers who are in Russian custody after their months-long defense of the Mariupol steel plant....
The war has now reached the 'push' stage, progress on either side is incremental as artillery and armor slug it out, and Putin cannot afford such a stalemate, he is emptying the war coffers and depleting his main armor and heavy artillery profile.
Conversely, the US and NATO will continue to keep pouring heavy weapons and muntions into Ukraine, which is why Putin will sooner rather than later agree to a cease fire and negotiations where Russia gets the pro-Russia SE border areas that in 2014 invited him in. Whatever terms are negotiated, it will be Ukraine's decision alone.
Our best friends son, just here on a short leave, who was trained in Russian by the US Army, is stationed in Germany assigned to Russia communications intelligence operations. He stated 'they' are highly aware of ongoing and serious conflicts between the Russian command structure and the front line Russian soldiers agitating to leave Ukraine. That is not how wars are won.
Conversely, the US and NATO will continue to keep pouring heavy weapons and muntions into Ukraine, which is why Putin will sooner rather than later agree to a cease fire and negotiations where Russia gets the pro-Russia SE border areas that in 2014 invited him in. Whatever terms are negotiated, it will be Ukraine's decision alone.
Our best friends son, just here on a short leave, who was trained in Russian by the US Army, is stationed in Germany assigned to Russia communications intelligence operations. He stated 'they' are highly aware of ongoing and serious conflicts between the Russian command structure and the front line Russian soldiers agitating to leave Ukraine. That is not how wars are won.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I'll try to stay in the historical context and this should not become a political discussion, just a clarification of definitions:
While the Nazis were certainly not conservative in the traditional sense, they were definitely right-wing. Hitler's use of the term "socialist" within "National Socialist" was basically a ploy to appeal to the German working class; in the same vein, the German word for comrade, "Genosse", was adapted by the Nazis into "Parteigenosse", party comrade, which is how they referred to each other, and "Volksgenosse", people's comrade, which was every other German.
What makes National Socialist ideology and politics right-wing is that it was basically "socialism for the nation", not the individual or the working class or whomever. In fact, while (somewhat simplified) left-wing socialism promises the individual lots of goodies, national socialism means the opposite: everybody has to give and serve to make Germany great again. Mothers have to mass-produce babies to "give to the Führer" (literally; the propaganda phrased it like that), everybody serves in the party or labor service or army, all for the nation, nothing for the individual. Nothing left-wing about it.
The Russian claims about the Ukrainian government are politically and historically rubbish. In common Russian parlance, Nazi and Fascist have just become generic words for "people we need a reason to kill". That there are fighters with right-wing ideologies in units like the Azov battalion blurs the lines a little, but they are just a small part of the Ukrainian forces, and certainly don't determine the character of what the Ukrainian people are fighting for.
While the Nazis were certainly not conservative in the traditional sense, they were definitely right-wing. Hitler's use of the term "socialist" within "National Socialist" was basically a ploy to appeal to the German working class; in the same vein, the German word for comrade, "Genosse", was adapted by the Nazis into "Parteigenosse", party comrade, which is how they referred to each other, and "Volksgenosse", people's comrade, which was every other German.
What makes National Socialist ideology and politics right-wing is that it was basically "socialism for the nation", not the individual or the working class or whomever. In fact, while (somewhat simplified) left-wing socialism promises the individual lots of goodies, national socialism means the opposite: everybody has to give and serve to make Germany great again. Mothers have to mass-produce babies to "give to the Führer" (literally; the propaganda phrased it like that), everybody serves in the party or labor service or army, all for the nation, nothing for the individual. Nothing left-wing about it.
The Russian claims about the Ukrainian government are politically and historically rubbish. In common Russian parlance, Nazi and Fascist have just become generic words for "people we need a reason to kill". That there are fighters with right-wing ideologies in units like the Azov battalion blurs the lines a little, but they are just a small part of the Ukrainian forces, and certainly don't determine the character of what the Ukrainian people are fighting for.
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UncleEd
Member
Let us remember that when it
comes to war crimes and the
Inernational Court, the US and
others have not signed to
officially support it.
That's because conceivably
Western leaders could also be
caught up in war crimes
charges.
This has been brought up as
recently as this week regarding
George Bush and the invasion of
Iraq. It can be argued that's
rubbish but......
comes to war crimes and the
Inernational Court, the US and
others have not signed to
officially support it.
That's because conceivably
Western leaders could also be
caught up in war crimes
charges.
This has been brought up as
recently as this week regarding
George Bush and the invasion of
Iraq. It can be argued that's
rubbish but......
Protocall_Design
Vendor
I'm wondering if China might be thinking about adding Russia to their portfolio once the Russians run out of military leaders and weapons? That would make for an interesting situation. I wonder how long it would take Russians to learn Chinese?
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