.38 SPECIALS IN 357 MAGNUMS?

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Let's talk about shooting .38 Specials in a .357 Magnum.

(I'm not sure where this belongs, but when I was coming up I was a Bullseye shooter with both revolvers and autoloaders----mostly revolvers.) Bullseye competition is about making the best score shooting at paper targets 25 and 50 yards away---standing on your hind legs, and holding your gun in one hand. (Seems sort'a like a lost art, doesn't it?)

So---.38's in a 357:

Will it work? Certainly, depending on what you mean by "work"----shooting for high scores or hitting the side of a barn-----barns are no problem. High scores are something else. The first thing that happens when you load .38's into a 357 Magnum chamber is you've just added 1/8" to the throat length----maybe 1/10"----I forget. That's going to instantly adversely effect group size. If you're having any difficulty grasping that, get a hold of a machine rest and try it out. The next problem is that shoulder sitting ahead of the case mouth instead of at it. What does that do to the bullet? I don't know for sure either. I know it does something it wouldn't do if it wasn't there. What I do know is ultimate accuracy is totally (TOTALLY) dependent on how a bullet comes out of a bore. It goes exactly where it's pointed if it comes out pristine, and it goes somewhere else if it comes out with ANY sort of deformation---ANYWHERE. And once again, if you're having any difficulty grasping that, get a hold of a machine rest and try it out.

As an aside, machine rests are a wondrous thing. They'll teach you things you were too dumb to ask about. I know this because I used one pretty much non-stop when I was a lunatic fringe reloader searching for ultimate accuracy. I got all sorts of answers to questions I didn't ask, and then had to figure out what the questions were----a sometimes daunting task.

At any rate, if you want to shoot .38's in a 357, knock yourself out. If you want to hit what you're shooting at-----little bitty targets, far, far away, then shoot .38's in .38's.

Ralph Tremaine
 
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One of the world's finest and most successful custom PPC revolver builders in the history of gunsmithing produced a whole lot of custom competition guns using the S&W Model 19 as a base gun.

That would be Ron Power of Power Custom, KC MO. His guns were right at/near the top of the heap in a very competitive class of custom gun builders.

Pretty sure that he wasn't fabricating new cylinders with shorter chambers and he wasn't adding metal to each chamber either.

I think there are many variables to gilt-edged accuracy and accuracy that frankly goes beyond the original scope of the design.

I think that YMMV works here.
 
I realize that what I'm about to mention is a whole nother kettle of fish and I have the torn out fingernails to prove it.

Every pre-loved .357 Magnum that I acquire should come equipped with a pair of pliers to pull the spent magnum shells from the cylinder. The burn rings left behind from firing .38 spl rounds are a royal PITA to remove.

I'd like to be able to keep a straight face when I attempt to blame my erratic patterns on something like .38s in a .357 revolver. That dog won't hunt.
 
Back in my long-ago Bullseye days, I used both a Colt 3-5-7 and a S&W Model 14 in the CF stage with .38 Special WCs in both. I have no remaining records of scores to fall back on, but I would probably have remembered if one revolver was clearly better than the other, but the Colt did feel better in my hand. I would agree that performance differences between using .357 vs. .38 Special revolver would likely depend more upon individual eccentricities of each revolver, and possibly the load used, than whether the revolver was a .38 or a .357. It would take a lot of testing with numerous guns to find out with any degree of statistical reliability.
 
Most of us don't see or shoot well enough to make a real difference. Only at the far edge of competition shooting will we see folks with such capability. Ralph admits having that interest and I presume that capacity. Not I.
 
I'm sorry, but I can't concur!

I have a few really nice .38's (Colt OMM, 14-4, Pre-15 K38) but my most accurate .38 is my 28-2!

I have had the same experience...my 627-0 is scary accurate with .38 ammo, better than my .38 Special only revolvers.
 
I guess I would like to see the target sheets from the machine rest tests for these "absolute tack drivers" and "most accurate" and "scary accurate" guns. On the other hand, if what was really meant by these comments is they describe the guns/loads you can shoot the best, then I'm happy you've found guns you like; and can shoot them to your satisfaction.

As for me, I have yet to find a gun I can shoot to my satisfaction; and I most certainly never will because I can't shoot as well as a machine rest can. I'm inclined to suspect no human ever could, can, or will.

And that, of course, is why these devices came into being----to objectively test guns and ammunition----and the results of changes made to either/both.

Ralph Tremaine
 
I certainly don’t claim to shoot well enough to see a degrading of accuracy when firing .38s in my .357 revolvers, but I don’t do it because, like Ingramite, I’ve spent enough time cleaning .357 cylinders that have been fouled with .38 ammo that I just avoid the problem to start with. It’s easy enough to make ammo using .357 cases adjusted to whatever power level is desired, and I have .38 Special revolvers to shoot .38s in, whenever wanted. Same thing with the .44 Magnum.
 
When shooting from a rest, what were the accuracy differences between the .38’s and .357’s?
 
It is too possible for humans from the bench to outshoot a machine rest . But machine rests aren't effected by eye strain or hand fatigue , and can perform at their peak all day long .
 
Bullseye competition is about making the best score shooting at paper targets 25 and 50 yards away---standing on your hind legs, and holding your gun in one hand. (Seems sort'a like a lost art, doesn't it?)

Bullseye isn't what it was in the past. But it still seems to be kicking in limited areas. We run a monthly 900 and usually get a handful of shooters. Last weekend we had the bright idea to run a clinic for newbies. 22LR only with slow, timed and rapid all shot at 25 yds. The idea was to demystify Bullseye, familiarize the newbies and show them it's possible to shoot good scores on your hind legs with one hand. We had 3x the normal turnout and they were all newbies.

I expect we'll see a number of them coming back for the regular matches. More that one admitted to gaining an excuse to buy a 45. Perhaps a slippery slope, but I figure it's my duty to lead them to the precipice!
 
When I went to the po-leese academy back in the late '70s, the top shot in my class scored a 100%, using a .357 Python.

I had several LEO friends who shot PPC. They could do 100%, using M686s.

BTW, I only shot a 93% at the academy; still good enough for an NRA Expert badge. I shot a 4" M19 that I had round butted; it was wearing Packys. The ammo was Zero brand 148 grain .38 special wadcutters.
 
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