Reloading 9MM Today

[GypsmJim]

As previously mentioned, we reloaders tend to stock up when prices are cheap. We all remember the crises of past years.

Bricks of primers, cans of powder and buckets of wheel weights don't take up a lot of room, relatively speaking. A few hundred cases will last for many years, even after having been used over and over.

Stockpiling crates of loaded ammo are another story. I would venture to guess that only a few hoard as much ammo as we do parts.

When the next crisis comes along and the ammo counters are to bare walls, we all can simply go down in the basement. We have tens of thousands of rounds, although they may not be put together yet.

 

[mikld]

I believe the video is a good recommendation to not shoot remanufactured ammo (same as someone else's reloads). I won't own a gun that I cannot reload for, except rimfire. I own 5, 9mm handguns and have never had any problems with my handloads in any (or my 32 ACP, 380 ACP or 45 ACP). I will not shoot any handloads I did not assemble...

 

[rockquarry]

Several of us don't buy in small quantities. I have ordered primers in 5K lots and buy powder in 8 lb kegs. If you shoot it adds up, even when it takes a few years to go through it.

Yes, if you are beyond the load development stage for a particular cartridge and have a load you really like, it makes a lot of sense to buy everything in quantity, kegs of powder, primers in cartons of 5,000, etc. You also save money by buying in quantity and paying one hazardous fee instead of several such fees like you do when you buy small quantities. And, you don't have to order frequently or worry so much about the next component drought.

Primers and powders will keep just short of forever if you store them in your house; no ritualistic storage procedures necessary. I've used many primers and powders that were well over forty years old. They have always worked like fresh ones.

 

[cracker57]

Stockpiling crates of loaded ammo are another story. I would venture to guess that only a few hoard as much ammo as we do parts.

I don't like parts,so I reload what I have. I have found it to be a real pain trying to inventory how many rounds in parts I have.
I find it easier to inventory loaded rounds. The only down fall I can see is how heavy a couple thousand rounds is. I don't count my loaded ammo I guesstimate and weight them. No better way to store powder than inside brass.

With brass free and lets say 10 cents for primer, 3 cents in powder, and I like 124 grain JHP precision Delta Bullets at 12 cents. that puts me at today's prices right around 25 cents. I figure I am saving a dime with every pull of the handle and I Like my JHP more than FMJ
Thats my 2 cents worth.

 

[Racer X]

Several of us don't buy in small quantities. I have ordered primers in 5K lots and buy powder in 8 lb kegs. If you shoot it adds up, even when it takes a few years to go through it.

my primary powder I buy in 8 pound jugs. For .308 or .30-06 that's still only a thousand rounds.

the biggest savings comes from shipping/hazmat charges by not ordering often. There is a fantastic reloading shop on the way to my partner's home. I always check there for primers and powder. They give a 3% discount for cash, and no shipping/hazmat. So it's worth it. When things normalize again, He will add your stuff to store stock orders and call when it comes in.

 

[LostintheOzone]

Several of us don't buy in small quantities. I have ordered primers in 5K lots and buy powder in 8 lb kegs. If you shoot it adds up, even when it takes a few years to go through it.

Yep, buying primers and powder in quantity will insure an uninterrupted flow in your reloading and shooting. The above is my minimum order. Haven't purchased either in several years. Looks like maybe another year or two until I'll need to order again. My feeling is if you're going to pay the hazmat you might as well get something for it.

 

[smithra_66]

Actually if you spend a few minutes searching you'll find more instances of this occurring.

Do you really believe that Glock would still be in business (let alone the leader of a segment), if their guns "blew up" simply the because the ammunition is reloaded?

After 40 years in business, you really think this is possible?

You can't be serious?

 

[Racer X]

Glock started to better support their chambers starting with Gen 3? I believe. I have a Gen 4 model 40 10mm, and Gen 5 g
Glock 23 and 27 both .40 S&W.

And aftermarket barrels usually have better chamber support.

look at a Glock barrel side by side with a Smith barrel with rounds in them. All semi barrels except .357 Sig have varying degrees of support. By nature of the necked case, .357 Sig feeds very easily, and can have far better case support.

 

[9mmPatriot]

Do you really believe that Glock would still be in business (let alone the leader of a segment), if their guns "blew up" simply the because the ammunition is reloaded?

After 40 years in business, you really think this is possible?

You can't be serious?

Wow, you really have your knickers in a knot.

Simply pointed out a potential weak point.

My son shoots a Glock with his reloads. He's a die-hard fan....and he's the person that brought this to my attention.


glock barrel failures - Google Search

 

[TexasViking]

Economy was certainly a factor to start handloading, but the predominant reason, was a desire to make better ammo. Pretty decent FMJ stuff could be found very cheap back then. But, I've found an FMJ that would do anything that can't be done with a good hard-cast bullet. I mostly load JHPs of 124 grs. or heavier and do a pretty fair amount of ballistic testing. When my SP and I pick up brass after we shoot, about 25% of what we collect was left behind by others. And from time to time I test the better factory defense loads. I don't know exactly how they arrive at their decisions, but as a couple of examples, the 124 gr. HST and Gold Dot +P loads are rated 1220 FPS from a 4" test barrel but won't get to 1200 from a 4.5" barrel. The HST +P chrono's under 1150 FPS from a 4" M&P Mod 2 Compact, while both loads exhibit flatter primers than a load I recently developed with the 124 gr. V-Crown at 1255 FPS from a 4.5" CZ 75 Clone I've customized. With a charge of Silhouette .2 grs. lower the load chrono's 1174 FPS from the Mod 2 Compact. An overwhelming reason is proper powder selection and loading to the best OACL for a particular pistol. Factory ammo is one-size-fits-all. And in testing even as low as 1125 FPS and up to 1255 FPS, and because it is available to handloaders, I don't see any superiority for the HST.

 

[DeplorabusUnum]

Economy was certainly a factor to start handloading, but the predominant reason, was a desire to make better ammo. Pretty decent FMJ stuff could be found very cheap back then. But, I've found an FMJ that would do anything that can't be done with a good hard-cast bullet. I mostly load JHPs of 124 grs. or heavier and do a pretty fair amount of ballistic testing. When my SP and I pick up brass after we shoot, about 25% of what we collect was left behind by others. And from time to time I test the better factory defense loads. I don't know exactly how they arrive at their decisions, but as a couple of examples, the 124 gr. HST and Gold Dot +P loads are rated 1220 FPS from a 4" test barrel but won't get to 1200 from a 4.5" barrel. The HST +P chrono's under 1150 FPS from a 4" M&P Mod 2 Compact, while both loads exhibit flatter primers than a load I recently developed with the 124 gr. V-Crown at 1255 FPS from a 4.5" CZ 75 Clone I've customized. With a charge of Silhouette .2 grs. lower the load chrono's 1174 FPS from the Mod 2 Compact. An overwhelming reason is proper powder selection and loading to the best OACL for a particular pistol. Factory ammo is one-size-fits-all. And in testing even as low as 1125 FPS and up to 1255 FPS, and because it is available to handloaders, I don't see any superiority for the HST.

I chrono tested 5 different 9mm defense loads in my Glock 19 with 4" barrel and my results agree with yours. These were my five shot averages

124 grain:
Hornady XTP 1144 ft/s
Federal HST 1145 ft/s
Remington Golden Sabre 1142 ft/s
Speer Gold Dot 1110 ft/s

115 grain:
Fiocchi XTP 1179 ft/s

The best group was the Speer Gold Dot, which also had the lowest ES of 8.44 and SD of 3.67

 

[TexasViking]

I chrono tested 5 different 9mm defense loads in my Glock 19 with 4" barrel and my results agree with yours. These were my five shot averages

124 grain:
Hornady XTP 1144 ft/s
Federal HST 1145 ft/s
Remington Golden Sabre 1142 ft/s
Speer Gold Dot 1110 ft/s

115 grain:
Fiocchi XTP 1179 ft/s

The best group was the Speer Gold Dot, which also had the lowest ES of 8.44 and SD of 3.67

Very close! 10 rounds of the Federal 124 gr. HST +P chrono'd 1143 FPS from the Mod 2 Compact with an SD of 10 FPS.

The Gold Dots are excellent. I haven't tested the 115 gr. but the 124 and the 147 loaded +P are oustanding as far as expansion and penetration. They have definitely gone up in price and were unavailble at the time, so I decided to put the V-Crown to the test.

 

[TexasViking]

I hope I'm not violating forum rules since I'm likely double-posting, but I am aware of the 250 word post limit. This is beneficial info, though.
Another reason I wanted to water test the V-Crown 124 was because I saw that Double-Tap switched from the Gold Dot to what they're calling the 124 gr. "Bonded Defense" by WIN. I'm thinking it's the WIN PDX since the SXT is 127 grs. But at a very similar velocity spec, they dropped the +P+ rating they had used for the 124 gr. Gold Dot version to +P for the WIN "Bonded Defense" version. I had suspected that the Gold Dot might create a bit more pressure at a given velocity, but don't have the pressure testing equip to verify. Academic because the fastest I've ever pushed the 124 gr. Gold Dot and the "Pulled" 124 gr. HSTs I loaded in the +P range were basically identical to what I'm doing with the 124 gr. V-Crown for direct comparison. I'm a fan of and acquainted with Charles Schwartz, and over the past 5 or 6 years he has furnished me with his Q-Model spreadsheet program. And if you know him or his book, Quantitative Ammunition Selection, you know that by measuring velocity with weight and diameter of a recovered JHP, you can predict it's penetration in properly calibrated FBI gel where he maintains an accuracy better than 95% while he's just surpassed 900 tests in both mediums. The 124 gr. V-Crown at 1255 FPS frpm a 4.5" barrel did vert well in my latest water test.

 

[DeplorabusUnum]

I hope I'm not violating forum rules since I'm likely double-posting, but I am aware of the 250 word post limit. This is beneficial info, though.
Another reason I wanted to water test the V-Crown 124 was because I saw that Double-Tap switched from the Gold Dot to what they're calling the 124 gr. "Bonded Defense" by WIN. I'm thinking it's the WIN PDX since the SXT is 127 grs. But at a very similar velocity spec, they dropped the +P+ rating they had used for the 124 gr. Gold Dot version to +P for the WIN "Bonded Defense" version. I had suspected that the Gold Dot might create a bit more pressure at a given velocity, but don't have the pressure testing equip to verify. Academic because the fastest I've ever pushed the 124 gr. Gold Dot and the "Pulled" 124 gr. HSTs I loaded in the +P range were basically identical to what I'm doing with the 124 gr. V-Crown for direct comparison. I'm a fan of and acquainted with Charles Schwartz, and over the past 5 or 6 years he has furnished me with his Q-Model spreadsheet program. And if you know him or his book, Quantitative Ammunition Selection, you know that by measuring velocity with weight and diameter of a recovered JHP, you can predict it's penetration in properly calibrated FBI gel where he maintains an accuracy better than 95% while he's just surpassed 900 tests in both mediums. The 124 gr. V-Crown at 1255 FPS frpm a 4.5" barrel did vert well in my latest water test.

So you're saying you can chrono a hollow point shot into water jugs, then recover, measure expansion and weight, and accurately calculate its predicted penetration in FBI ballistic gel? If true, that would make testing a lot simpler.

 

[rosewood]

So you're saying you can chrono a hollow point shot into water jugs, then recover, measure expansion and weight, and accurately calculate its predicted penetration in FBI ballistic gel? If true, that would make testing a lot simpler.

And cheaper, but not near as exciting as watching the ballistic gel jiggle on the high speed cameras on the utube channels.

Rosewood

 

[cmj8591]

Not to go off track, but there is a lot of discussion here about reloaded brass failure. Brass fails. Used brass, new brass, factory loaded brass all can fail. All modern guns, Glock included, are designed to handle a brass failure without going into low earth orbit. The internet is a great place to learn about stuff but you have to keep in mind that it is the kingdom of the anecdotal. If a gun is destroyed it is because of an over pressure condition. Lots of things can cause that. Things like bore obstructions or over charged or wrong type powder are some of the many possible causes. Case failure alone is almost never the cause of a gun failing. (I want to take "almost" out of that statement but I haven't experienced everything in the world of gun failure.) When a barrel fails, the brass case fails with it. That doesn't mean that the brass caused the failure. I think that's what you see in a lot of these internet postings. "My gun blew up and this reloaded piece of brass is in pieces so that must have caused my gun to blow up. Reloads are bad!". A while back I posted a thread here about my experiences reloading aluminum cases.
There's no good reason to do this...but, part 2
I used a Glock model 45 to do my tests. It didn't blow up and I still have all my digits. Here is a photo of how one of the cases looked after 9 reloads. Keep in mind that the split started at reload number 6.

Everyone approaches this hobby in their own way. If you like to reload and experiment you can. If you don't, factory is for you. But I think that it is inaccurate to look at the experiences posted on the web and draw the conclusion that using reloads is somehow inherently dangerous or that Glocks are poorly engineered. It's important to keep that in mind when you are reposting the experiences of others.

 

[rosewood]

Not to go off track, but there is a lot of discussion here about reloaded brass failure. Brass fails. Used brass, new brass, factory loaded brass all can fail. All modern guns, Glock included, are designed to handle a brass failure without going into low earth orbit. The internet is a great place to learn about stuff but you have to keep in mind that it is the kingdom of the anecdotal. If a gun is destroyed it is because of an over pressure condition. Lots of things can cause that. Things like bore obstructions or over charged or wrong type powder are some of the many possible causes. Case failure alone is almost never the cause of a gun failing. (I want to take "almost" out of that statement but I haven't experienced everything in the world of gun failure.) When a barrel fails, the brass case fails with it. That doesn't mean that the brass caused the failure. I think that's what you see in a lot of these internet postings. "My gun blew up and this reloaded piece of brass is in pieces so that must have caused my gun to blow up. Reloads are bad!". A while back I posted a thread here about my experiences reloading aluminum cases.
There's no good reason to do this...but, part 2
I used a Glock model 45 to do my tests. It didn't blow up and I still have all my digits. Here is a photo of how one of the cases looked after 9 reloads. Keep in mind that the split started at reload number 6.

Everyone approaches this hobby in their own way. If you like to reload and experiment you can. If you don't, factory is for you. But I think that it is inaccurate to look at the experiences posted on the web and draw the conclusion that using reloads is somehow inherently dangerous or that Glocks are poorly engineered. It's important to keep that in mind when you are reposting the experiences of others.

Here, here.

One thing most folks don't realize, the brass isn't a combustion chamber, it does not contain the explosion. The brass is merely a gas seal for the barrel chamber and breech that contains the pressure. Now if the seal is weak where it isn't supported, then it may fail at sealing the pressure and blow out. But as you said, if the chamber is structurally sound and the load itself was safe, it doesn't hurt the gun other than maybe some pitting where the gas jet hit the breech face or barrel at the leak point.

In the example of the aluminum case, the case split because it was brittle and was unable to expand to fit/seal the chamber. This can also happen with brass cases when they become brittle from repeated fire/resize cycles.

Black powder rifles do not use brass, the powder is placed directly in the combustion chamber without a gas seal and they don't blow up.

Rosewood

 

[Mike0251]

The wife and I shoot USPSA matches (PCC) frequently. I reload and use 9mm to the tune of at least 600 a month. Bullets are bought in bulk, powder and primers were bought a few years back and quite a bit too. A 4lb jug of VV goes a long way for 9mm.

As for brass, I buy that in bulk too, 3000+ at a time and its all range brass. BUT, all of it gets roll sized right after wet cleaning. A Dillon super 1050 is used and 300 rounds at a sitting takes no time at all, maybe 25 minutes.

None of it is recovered after the match, it becomes lost brass. I do not use aluminum or steel, any of that gets pitched but I see very little of it if at all.

If I end up running low on primers would I buy them at $600 for 5000? Yes I would if needed, I'm retired and I can't take any of it with me the day the good Lord comes a calling. Shoot well and shoot often my friends!

 

[cmj8591]

In the example of the aluminum case, the case split because it was brittle and was unable to expand to fit/seal the chamber. This can also happen with brass cases when they become brittle from repeated fire/resize cycles.

One of the things that I experienced in my test was that the aluminum cases became work hardened very quickly and stopped springing back after resize. Aluminum also has a higher amount of burn through than brass when they are compromised. This is addressed in manufacturing by putting a coating on the case. I think the repeated resizing destroyed the coating. These are the reasons that the factories don't condone reloading aluminum. Sorry again to the op for going off the track with this thread.

 

[Nevada Ed]

In post #1;

Yes, the price of 9mm ammo is where we can buy it and not get hurt to bad on it's price.

I would rather use those primers and help my wallet out BIG TIME,

by loading .357 Magnum or 38 special ammo, which is a killer, at todays prices
along with the shortage of it .