AR pistol braces? What's going on?

wood714 said:
I can with the AR pictured.

I sent in a 5320.20 a couple weeks ago for a trip I may go on late October. I'd like to take 2 of my SBR's with me.
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Exactly, but if you register it any out of state travel will require a 5320.20
 
So can the same AR (i.e. Lower) be a SBR and a Pistol?
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Once an NFA item, always an NFA item.

Take the M2 carbine that is actually marked M2, the M2 is classified as a machinegun and converting it to a standard, non select fire M1 configuration does not change its designation as a machinegun.
 
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Built 2 AR pistols, braced one. Smelled the inevitable havoc and am prepared to pull. Cheek weld on buffer tube works fine as I try to use mine in the "spirit" as intended rather than shouldering.

Only other braced pistol here is an MP5 which has nothing for cheek weld, making the brace useful for such.

Both easy to revert. May go form 1 route to SBR in the future but I prefer to verify function to five nines before I throw down on registration. Don't want to prematurely register a dud.

Personally it seems like pure ATF folly. Gun laws from the 30's and 60's contorting to the realities of 2022.
 
Rodan said:
The ATF has long used the standard of "constructive possession"
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IANAL but I've always thought that is a total BS concept. I have a pile of lumber in my back yard and a couple bags of sand mix but township doesn't say "Hey! You have a deck and no building permit."
 
Rodan said:
The ATF has long used the standard of "constructive possession", meaning if you have the parts in your possession to create an SBR, just possessing those parts establishes the intent to create the prohibited item.

In some cases, it's a little more difficult to cross that bridge, say if you have a complete 16" AR, and also an 11" barrel in possession, as it takes some work to swap them out. If you have an AR of pistol length and a brace in possession, it takes 5 seconds to install the brace, so it's easier to make the case.

All that said, I have no idea if they are planning to serialize braces. That would add even more complexity to a situation that is already logistically impossible.
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If you have an AR-15 pistol upper and an AR-15 rifle, you better have an AR pistol lower in your possession as well, of they'll play the constructive intent card as you could use the pisto, upon the rifle lower to complete an unregistered SBR with no tools and minimal effort.

Now…you could do the same thing anyway, but it's plausibly deniable if you have the pistol lower for 1 or more pistol uppers.

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My impression is that they plan to document the configuration with the form and an accompanying picture.

In my public comments I suggested grandfathering existing pistol braces from the provision entirely and then requiring new build pistol braces be serialized and production date coded to distinguish them as braces that are required to be registered under the new rules.

It would not be any different than a registered sear that could be dropped into any AR-15.

They are no going to do that, as their goal it to pressure or inconvenience a significant number of pistol brace owners into destroying them.
 
BB57 said:
If you have an AR-15 pistol upper and an AR-15 rifle, you better have an AR pistol lower in your possession as well, of they'll play the constructive intent card as you could use the pisto, upon the rifle lower to complete an unregistered SBR with no tools and minimal effort.
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Actual court cases please.

Otherwise just fear mongering.

p.s. This is not illegal if the firearm are built as a pistol first as a pistol can be changed to a rifle then back to a pistol.
 
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Jesus Amador of the above case was arrested, but says in a firearms forum post the charges were dropped and all of his property returned. I won't link to another forum, but its easy enough to find.

Not an ATF case, either. Lee County Sheriff's Office (Florida) enforcing Florida statutes.
 
Not an ATF case, either. Lee County Sheriff's Office (Florida) enforcing Florida statutes.
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Besides the fact that local gendarmerie enforcing Federal regulations or statutes offends me I sense there is more to this story that we are unaware of.
 
Some years ago when I purchased a Sig PM400 AR pistol with brace, it CAME with a copy of an official ATF letter approving it's possession and use by any lawful John Q. Public.

I laminated that letter and it goes in the case with that firearm everywhere it goes.

ANY average member of LE would have no issue of checking the firearm and seeing that laminated letter in my possession.
Not too worried.
 
ISCS Yoda said:
Besides the fact that local gendarmerie enforcing Federal regulations or statutes offends me I sense there is more to this story that we are unaware of.
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They were Florida cops enforcing a Florida law against possession of short barreled rifles. No feds or federal law involved.
 
I was told by a friend yesterday, Dec 28 is the date they become illegal. Anyone else hear similar?

EDIT: the day the rule comes out.u
 
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Muss Muggins said:
The modern definition of "mass shooting" is something along the lines of "four or more (some definitions use three), not including the shooter, injured or killed in a single incident at the same general time and location. Various media outlets use variations of the above. Interestingly, I found reference to a family member killing the whole family not counting as a mass shooting, and I found some references that stated that the injuries or deaths do not necessarily need to be caused by gunfire, just by the occasion of gunfire.

So, when taken all together, should the various users of the above definitions ever collaborate, 2,600 is probably light . . .
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My problem with the definitions is that it is entirely possible to have a mass shooting with only one round fired. If it is fired into a crowd any round will likely hit 3-4 people.
 
ladder13 said:
I was told by a friend yesterday, Dec 28 is the date they become illegal. Anyone else hear similar?
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That's supposedly the acceptance date for the rule, it is supposed to become effective in April.

Apparently, just taking it off isn't good enough. You're supposed to render it incapable of being attached to the gun.
 
I am not going to do anything different. Compliance is complicity. This is an unconstitutional infringement. It will be challenged and ruled as such. I just won't take anything to the local range where I am sure ATF agents will be hanging around, waiting to spring on honest gun owners enjoying the lawful exercise of their rights...
 
Not on the political/legal topic of the status of braces, but just wanted to make sure that everyone interested knows about the existence of the shooting technique of "cheeking" a buffer tube. I first heard of it from Demonstrated Concepts up in Colorado, and their YouTube videos were encouraging enough for me to try it.
My 300 BLK shorty

After trying that method, I was smitten: I trashed my braces and haven't missed them since.
 
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