Are revolvers for amateurs?

[Yaworski]

I "lent" one of my Model 60ND to daughter, SIL took his Sig in .45ACP.

Interstate transfer? Delete your post.

 

[theprincipal]

I'm glad my perception was off, and I am wordy, prefer a full answer when I think it's required.

The semantics are not mine, they are Glock's and yours. The G19 might have been a compact semiauto when it was introduced and for a fairly long time afterwards, but it is no longer a compact semi auto, even if Glock continues to call it a compact.

Nobody would disagree that training and on going practice are far and away the best route for all gun owners, but, despite preaching it myself, I know it's unrealistic to expect even a large minority of new gun owners to practice sufficiently enough to maintain reasonable familiarity with their firearm, let alone achieve proficiency. That fact and the far simpler manual of arms for a revolver are why I argue for a revolver for many, probably most handgun buying their first handgun for the "house" or "bedside."

Perhaps recommending a revolver is a crutch overcoming the reality of the new "house" or "bedside" gun buyer's lack of adequate training or future ongoing practice, but it's a safe and effective crutch.

An untrained, unpracticed gun owner is certainly at a disadvantage compared to a trained and practiced gun owner, but, faced with a significant threat, the untrained, unpracticed gun owner has all of the options an unarmed citizen has, plus the option of self defense.

Not to beleaguer the point, but the "compact" size handgun description is still used by many leading manufacturers; Glock, CZ, Walther, S&W, Beretta, and Sig. It is certainly not my description. If this terminology is changing for some manufacturers, it is still commonplace. The "duty" description is often used for full sized pistols, although I agree that compact pistols are commonly used as duty pistols these days and the terms may overlap.

Once again, without getting caught up in semantics, my point was that I would recommend this size (approx. 4 inch barrel/full hand fits on grip), over a full size or a sub-compact/micro-9 size for a first time firearm. I never recommended specific models. I simply used a G19 as a general size reference. Obviously there are many compact pistol options to choose from.

It is my hope that these points aren't lost on you, especially considering that you work part time in the firearm retail world. I wouldn't want you confusing people, who read different terminology than you use, when they do their own research about some of the most popular handgun models.

 

[GypsmJim]

Yep. I rarely see revolver shooters at the indoor ranges anymore. And you are right that many of the ones I do see are shooting their DA revolvers in SA mode.

DA revolver shooting is starting to feel like a dieing art.

I shoot on winter weekdays at my club's indoor range. Most of the guys there during the week are old retired codgers.....like me.

A few shoot high priced .22 rifles. They also shoot in matches, so for them its practice time.

Of those that shoot handguns, I would guesstimate that more than half shoot wheelguns. And those that shoot semis, most are 1911s. Very few black plastics.

 

[malph]

I shoot on winter weekdays at my club's indoor range. Most of the guys there during the week are old retired codgers.....like me.

A few shoot high priced .22 rifles. They also shoot in matches, so for them its practice time.

Of those that shoot handguns, I would guesstimate that more than half shoot wheelguns. And those that shoot semis, most are 1911s. Very few black plastics.

Sounds like you belong to a nice club.

 

[Golddollar]

I used to shoot pins with a DA revolver. Five shots, five pins.

I used to shoot bowling pins with a .45 Ruger Blackhawk. At the time it was the only centerfire handgun I had. One time I did clean the table in 4 1/2 seconds. Never was able to quite match it again.

 

[John Patrick]

I've seen one person shoot a revolver on our gun club range in the twelve or so years I've belonged. That was in the last year. He was firing a snub nose of some sort and I couldn't tell if he was firing single-or double-action as I was driving on my way home, but he was firing up close (ten yards or less) like 99% of the semi-automatic shooters do.

As for single-action vs. double-action... I shoot single action very enjoyably and at my own pace almost all the time with revolvers at 25 yards (sometimes 50). If you shoot regularly and have been doing so for the last forty or fifty years, it's very easy without thought to transition to double-action shooting.

If a shooter has to think about any of this or has even the slightest difficulty or hesitation in going from SA to DA, the shooter needs to start shooting more, probably a lot more. It shouldn't be difficult to get a decent 25 yard double-action group; mine are larger than groups fired in single-action, but that's because my skill level remains lacking.

I haven't figured out why, maybe because I do it a lot more, but my double action revolver shooting is better than my single action revolver shooting, insofar as group size.

 

[John Patrick]

Not to beleaguer the point, but the "compact" size handgun description is still used by many leading manufacturers; Glock, CZ, Walther, S&W, Beretta, and Sig. It is certainly not my description. If this terminology is changing for some manufacturers, it is still commonplace. The "duty" description is often used for full sized pistols, although I agree that compact pistols are commonly used as duty pistols these days and the terms may overlap.

Once again, without getting caught up in semantics, my point was that I would recommend this size (approx. 4 inch barrel/full hand fits on grip), over a full size or a sub-compact/micro-9 size for a first time firearm. I never recommended specific models. I simply used a G19 as a general size reference. Obviously there are many compact pistol options to choose from.

It is my hope that these points aren't lost on you, especially considering that you work part time in the firearm retail world. I wouldn't want you confusing people, who read different terminology than you use, when they do their own research about some of the most popular handgun models.

The points aren't lost on me, nor is the realization that 1. most won't adequately practice, 2. even if they're inclined they won't continue if practice is unpleasant.

Which gets back to another significant advantage of a 38spl or, better, 357 revolver. And that advantage is the ability to pick your power, from very mild cowboy action loads through wadcutter target ammo to standard velocity, +P, +P Buffalo Bore - which is in its own league, and relatively mild to wild 357 if the revolver is chambered for it.

Thankfully, time at the counter with most customers, including discussion and putting different handguns in their hands, eliminates confusion.

One unfortunate but very common tendency, especially among first time women buyers, is the desire for the smallest, least obtrusive gun, even when they are looking for a "house" or "bedside" gun and have no plans or desire to carry concealed.

And sometimes "pretty" hooks a first time woman buyer. An example is the Kimber Micro 9 Belair (which is Belair blue and shiny stainless.) It would be hard to select a worse choice given the size, weight and manual of arms.

 

[Hair Trigger]

I'm no expert, but my shooting skills are above average, and I'm competent with almost any handgun. I guess I'm an amateur because I'm not currently being paid for shooting, but I can live with that.

That's me in a nutshell. I would add, I'm competent with any handgun I own, and several others I've had an opportunity to use or have owned in the past. As for not getting paid for shooting, me, either, but I'm always hopeful that somebody might at least pay for the ammo I shoot, other than me.

It's a mental thing imo. The shooter who chooses to carry a wheelgun knows he only has 5 or 6 rounds and knows he has to make his hits while the semi shooter has 20 rounds plus so has plenty of ammo and can afford to miss.

20 rounds for a semiauto for me means I have a second loaded magazine in my pocket. None of my semiautos holds more than 10.

I would agree that a revolver shooter may be more conscious of how many rounds he has and therefore more careful in his shot selection, but I feel that anyone who feels he has "plenty of ammo and can afford to miss", regardless of what he is carrying, is living under a false illusion of safety. Whatever kind of gun fight I might ever find myself in, I can only hope I have all but one round left of what I started with.

Daughter was only one in the class to bring a revolver and she did quite well at the range, especially for never having previously shot this firearm....

Instructor was duly impressed......

I was the only one in my concealed carry class who brought a revolver, a 4" M66, and I qualified with magnum loads. Nothing outside of the 10 ring, and the instructor, a company police officer from where I worked, mouthed at me "Show-off". Of course, that was 25 years and 4 permit renewals ago.

I also think an untrained person with a firearm can often be more of a liability than an asset in regards to self protection. Providing a crutch for a lack of training/proficiency, shouldn't be the basis for gun buying advice. Training and practice should take place regardless of the type of firearm recommended. As long as all of this is communicated to the new gun owner, then it is up to the gun owner to be self reliant and make responsible choices for themselves.

The first question I asked, when I taught concealed carry classes, was "Do you feel confident you can shoot another human being if you felt he would kill you if you didn't?" It was not rhetorical, I had everyone answer after giving them a few minutes to seriously consider it. If they weren't sure, or said they didn't think they could, I refunded their money and told them it was useless for them to carry or own a firearm for personal protection, and they were wasting their money to take the class. Anyone can learn every other behavior related to operating a firearm, but nobody can be taught the will to use it. If you decide to carry, you absolutely have to be willing to use it; then, learning how and when, and staying competent through practice, is the most important things the gun owner can do.

 

[old bear]

Are revolvers for amateurs?

I never believed they were. That is Just my Opinion, but do remember that opinions are like armpits everyone has them and most stink.

 

[AJ]

How many of you "experts" can clear a Failure to Fire (FTF) in under a second with an Auto? A revolver shooter can by simply pulling the trigger again. Most of you stand there and look at the handgun trying to figure out what to do.

 

[Yaworski]

How many of you "experts" can clear a Failure to Fire (FTF) in under a second with an Auto? A revolver shooter can by simply pulling the trigger again. Most of you stand there and look at the handgun trying to figure out what to do.

Very true. Clearing drills require continual practice.

 

[AJ]

Very true. Clearing drills require continual practice.

Very true. When I worked for Marine Corps Security Force Battalions Schools we were drilled in all sorts of failures. I was trained as an Instructor. The courses were designed by Lt.Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC (Retired) and the Corps. Many hours clearing malfunctions that our instructors put into our weapons. Still do it the same way now after 35 + years when I have a malfunction.

 

[mtgianni]

I believe that paid professional killers, not amateurs, could use revolvers so as not to police their brass. As to any others the definitions of professional and amateur are outside the discussion held here.

 

[AJ]

I believe that paid professional killers, not amateurs, could use revolvers so as not to police their brass. As to any others the definitions of professional and amateur are outside the discussion held here.

Does that mean the Armed Services are included in your statement? A lot of folks learned their weapons craft in the service, especially handgun training......

 

[AJ]

This is shot with my PPC DAO .38 Special in about a one minute time frame. All it takes is practice......

 

[AJ]

The first question I asked, when I taught concealed carry classes, was "Do you feel confident you can shoot another human being if you felt he would kill you if you didn't?" It was not rhetorical, I had everyone answer after giving them a few minutes to seriously consider it. If they weren't sure, or said they didn't think they could, I refunded their money and told them it was useless for them to carry or own a firearm for personal protection, and they were wasting their money to take the class. Anyone can learn every other behavior related to operating a firearm, but nobody can be taught the will to use it. If you decide to carry, you absolutely have to be willing to use it; then, learning how and when, and staying competent through practice, is the most important things the gun owner can do.

Wrong question........Just tell them "you are teaching them to stop a gun fight. If the other guy dies, then remember he started it!". Never tell them you are teaching them to kill.

 

[max503]

It is my opinion that most people buy semi autos because of marketing/availability/price, but they would be better off with a DA revolver.

 

[AJ]

It is my opinion that most people buy semi autos because of marketing/availability/price, but they would be better off with a DA revolver.

Hung out and helped around a friends gun shop on Saturdays when I had nothing better to do. Would see and older couple come in and invariably the husband want one of those "9 MM Autos". Would hand it to him after ensuring the chamber was clear. He would look it over and tell his wife "this is what we need for protection". I would tell him to rack the slide like he was chambering a round. About 90% or more of the time, the husband could not pull the slide back. I would ask him how was he going to protect them if he could not chamber a round. He would usually grumble that other Autos were easier. Would hand him another with the same results. I would then step over to the revolver case and take something out and let him and her try it out. Most of the time they left with a revolver.......

 

[Tex1001]

The first question I asked, when I taught concealed carry classes, was "Do you feel confident you can shoot another human being if you felt he would kill you if you didn't?"

When I sold and taught classes sometimes was asked by newbees about what
kind/caliber of firearm they should get I always asked the question:
"What do you hope to accomplish with a firearm?"
Several times the reply was "I just want to scare them, not hurt them".
I instructed these people to forget a firearm and get a baseball bat
because when the assailant took it away from them and used it on them their chances of being killed were somewhat lessened.
Several potential students/customers became really irate at me
for that.

I really didn't care.

 

[mtgianni]

Does that mean the Armed Services are included in your statement? A lot of folks learned their weapons craft in the service, especially handgun training......

Armed services are not paid to kill, rather to act as a unit. My point was the author of the "study" was taking huge liberties between amateur and professional. I prefer revolvers but do not consider my self an amateur nor professional. No one pays me to go to the range.