Hi all, I won this at auction today but won't have it in hand for a few weeks. Looks to be a pretty nice 22/32 Target with a pretty late serial number and original, if rough, box. Any idea of the date of manufacture? I can't find anything that late in some short googling. Pretty excited about it, wanted one of these for years and paid less than I thought I would.
22/32 Target Model auction purchase
- Thread starter Nyles
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Welcome to the forum! Just a guess, but perhaps around 1930-1934 I'm sure someone will get much closer than that though.
Welcome to the forums! Known shipping dates for these serials were somewhat backwards in progression:
.22/32 H.F. Target serial 496344 shipped January 1930.
.22/32 H.F. Target serial 501322 shipped August 1929.
.22/32 H.F. Target serial 501333 shipped December 1929.
.22/32 H.F. Target serial 525737 shipped October 25, 1927.
.22/32 H.F. Target serial 496344 shipped January 1930.
.22/32 H.F. Target serial 501322 shipped August 1929.
.22/32 H.F. Target serial 501333 shipped December 1929.
.22/32 H.F. Target serial 525737 shipped October 25, 1927.
I have 517217 which I show as 1930, don't remember where I got the date though.
Jeff
SWCA #1457
Jeff
SWCA #1457
Factory Letter best way to tell
My 22/32 HFT with s/n 224963 shipped September 20, 1915. My original box is similar to yours, and like you I had "guessed" at dates which were all over the map, even looking at SCSW, so I went ahead and sent for the Factory Letter.
Yours also appears in nice condition and the box is a bonus.
When you get it in hand, if you own a Model 17 with a 6" bbl please hold the Model 17 in one hand, and your new 22-32 HFT in the other hand and you'll immediately notice that the 22/32 HFT feels like a ultra - feather weight, and yet for years it carried the name HEAVY Frame Target.
Congrats on finding one in decent condition and with box too... getting scarcer by the day.
My 22/32 HFT with s/n 224963 shipped September 20, 1915. My original box is similar to yours, and like you I had "guessed" at dates which were all over the map, even looking at SCSW, so I went ahead and sent for the Factory Letter.
Yours also appears in nice condition and the box is a bonus.
When you get it in hand, if you own a Model 17 with a 6" bbl please hold the Model 17 in one hand, and your new 22-32 HFT in the other hand and you'll immediately notice that the 22/32 HFT feels like a ultra - feather weight, and yet for years it carried the name HEAVY Frame Target.
Congrats on finding one in decent condition and with box too... getting scarcer by the day.
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When you get it in hand, if you own a Model 17 with a 6" bbl please hold the Model 17 in one hand, and your new 22-32 HFT in the other hand and you'll immediately notice that the 22/32 HFT feels like a ultra - feather weight, and yet for years it carried the name HEAVY Frame Target.
HEAVY, compared to S&W's previous Target revolver, the M frame Ladysmith.
From the bottom up:
M frame Ladysmith Target .22 Long
I frame .22/32 Heavy Frame Target
I frame .22/32 Heavy Frame Target, Bekeart style grips
J frame Model 35-1 .22LR
K frame prewar Outdoorsman .22LR
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Thanks very much for all the replies, I will definitely take some more pictures when I actually get the gun in hand, but that will likely be a few weeks since I live in Canada.
Very interesting to see it compared to a K22 and Ladysmith - I'm actually really interested in seeing how it compares to my Colt Police Positive Target. I do have a few K frame .38s, but no .22s.
Very interesting to see it compared to a K22 and Ladysmith - I'm actually really interested in seeing how it compares to my Colt Police Positive Target. I do have a few K frame .38s, but no .22s.
According to my database, 501351 shipped 11/12/1929 to Wolf and Klar, Fort Worth, Texas. Others around this one also shipped in late 1929. The first one that I show shipping in 1930 is 517299, that shipped on 6/23/1930 to Belknap Hardware, St. Louis, MO.
There is never a guarantee with close serial numbers as there is always a chance of a "flyer" that shipped earlier or later, but in most cases it is usually close.
I would love to add information on any of this model that members have details on to my database. You can post information here or PM me or send an email. I don't store owner information and am only looking for details on the gun. I have roughly 15 in my collection to date as shown in my avatar and over 2,000 entries in my database. Always looking to add more to the collective knowledge.
There is never a guarantee with close serial numbers as there is always a chance of a "flyer" that shipped earlier or later, but in most cases it is usually close.
I would love to add information on any of this model that members have details on to my database. You can post information here or PM me or send an email. I don't store owner information and am only looking for details on the gun. I have roughly 15 in my collection to date as shown in my avatar and over 2,000 entries in my database. Always looking to add more to the collective knowledge.
Charlie, very nice example with box and letter. Just one small FYI, the letter states that Bekeart received 292 from the first run of 1,050. The correct number is actually 294.
The shipments were as follows:
6/7/1911 30
6/22/1911 60
6/28/1911 60
6/30/1911 60
8/31/1911 50
10/31/1911 34
Total 294
In my database, I have all of the serial numbers for the first run of 1,050. Unfortunately there are a few without dates or destinations due to the dreaded "open on the books" or unreadable in the hand written records.
This is where the Bekeart mystery gets funky. Bekeart is credited with this new revolver design, a .22 on a .32 frame and supposedly had to order 1,000 to entice S&W to do the tooling required to make this new model. However, as stated above, Bekeart only received 294 of this first 1,000+ run and although he received the first shipment of this model on 6/7/1911, other S&W distributors of the day began receiving shipments as early as 6/16/1911, or 9 days later. So early on, either Bekeart or S&W realized that he would not be able to sell all 1,000+ from the first run.
What adds to this mystery, is that there is an ad out there by Bekeart where he claims to have a second exclusive order of 1,000 of this model available for sale. Not sure if this was just salesman's puffery or what but I don't see that amount going to Bekeart in the second production run of 1,000 or so guns.
Granted, the first 1,050 guns worth of information was transcribed by me from the factory records through the grace and cooperation of Dr. Jinks in his home office. The rest of the entries in my database were scrounged from online auctions, ship date requests on the SWCA forum and posts here on the forum.
After the 138XXX and 139XXX guns from the first run, the next block of serial numbers appears to be in the 161141 to 165954 range. This appears to be a spread of almost 5,000 serial numbers. Since these number blocks were shared with the .32 caliber arms, there is no way of telling how many .22/32's were actually produced in the second run or how many went to Bekeart. Of the 100 listings that I have in this grouping, 53 went to Bekeart so more than half.
Therefore, the more information that I can collect, the more clear this story will become.
Keep them coming!!
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CAJUNLAWYER
Member
So what did you pay for it????? I gots to know
Just a moment...
JSR III when I get it, I will forward you the indormation for your records but you can probably get what you need from the gunbroker listing and factory letter
Just a moment...
JSR III when I get it, I will forward you the indormation for your records but you can probably get what you need from the gunbroker listing and factory letter
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Yes, I got what I needed. Had it listed already but with a different ship date month. The extractor rod knob, the Made in USA and the silver medallion stocks were all added in 1940 as they would not be original on a 1921 gun. I don't think that the stocks were listed on the work order so not sure about them but they don't typically appear until 1930 and in 1921 would have been the non medallion stocks that were used 1920 to 1930.
PS: I just checked the ship date forum and there was a request made for this gun stating an 8/1921 ship date. So either that or the letter is incorrect.
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I had an Outdoorsman from 1939 and my Colt Police Positive Target was also from 1939. The Colt was more accurate, but only marginally. The comparisons were using the same ammo, and as we all know, each gun has a preference for specific loads. The S&W loved Federal Match, while the Colt shot best with Nobel Rifle. In all, six of one 1/2 dozen for the other.
The Colt was my first handgun and was ordered for my dad but Stocks made for mom....
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Prices for these guns is weird. I have seen some go for over $1,000 when pristine and marketed well and then I have seen average guns sit for over a year in the $500 to $900 range. I think that the term "true Bekeart" has been pounded into buyers heads for so long that the guns shipped to other dealers of the day just sit.
Another interesting tidbit is that there are 490 consecutively serial numbered guns that were shipped to M.W. Robinson in 1914 in 5 shipments between January and March. Unlike the Bekeart guns that are not in serial number order, the Robinson guns are and they received close to 200 more.
The Robinson guns are not seen as often as those sent to other dealers and my suspicion is that since Robinson was a huge international shipper that many of these guns went out of the country. These guns fall between 207926 and 208915.
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Here's one of those revolvers, No 208106.
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larryofcc
Member
Back in 2018, my buddy had made a gun deal with person with a couple S&W's. The seller said he had another revolver he wanted also to sell. He sent pics, the worst fuzzy pics I have ever see. It appeared to be a 22-32 with the # 45642. With the bad pics, the guy wanted $400 for it. I asked my buddy if he was interested, and he said, no. So at $400 shipped, I decided to take a chance. When the gun arrived, I could not believe my eyes. A beautiful, 98% gun, and 100% matching. The gun was shipped 1- 1929. Also, it is very accurate and fun to shoot. Big Larry
I don't show a shipping date for that one but it should have an assembly order number stamped into the left stock bottom if the stocks are original.
I have recorded 16 stock imprint numbers in this group of 490 guns and see no guns with higher serial numbers receiving this marking. The range in my database is 2117 as a low to a high of 2582.
This is why I have made the assumption that the stock imprint numbers never went higher than the mid 2,000's.
Does your gun have the imprint?
Larry the .22/32's all have a 6 digit serial numbers until the 4" kit guns came out. In 1929 my database shows guns in the 492XXX range and up. Perhaps 495642???? I have that one listed with a 1/1929 ship date which because there is no DAY listed, it usually came from the SWCA ship date forum. Roy only gives month and year.
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