Has Smith & Wesson abandoned the .40 S&W cartridge?

[mrmike7189]

the 40 is manly

When the .40S&W was introduced, I figured I don't need a new caliber. I've been shooting the .45ACP all these years and it doesn't show any signs of "falling out of favor." I've never owned a handgun in .40S&W and am glad I never jumped on that bandwagon.

When I started my career in Law Enforcement in 2008 ,40 caliber was the ONLY caliber and if you carried a 9mm, you were a loser, , a girly man,who couldnt handle the manly Fortay!
Now my department carries....9mm's.
Funny how times change

 

[Frank Black]

When I started my career in Law Enforcement in 2008 ,40 caliber was the ONLY caliber and if you carried a 9mm, you were a loser, , a girly man,who couldnt handle the manly Fortay!
Now my department carries....9mm's. Funny how times change.

Actually what's funny is how times come full circle.

Introduced in 1983, the 10mm was declared "DEAD A.F.!" in 1986.

Then, suddenly, it was revived in 1987 when Colt introduced the Delta Elite. Other guns followed, and in 1989 S&W's 10mm 1076 was officially adopted by the FBI.

In 1990 the 10mm was declared "DEAD A.F. again!" when the 40S&W was officially introduced.

Watered-down and relegated to a has-been caliber through out the malaise of the 1990s, the staggering 10mm rebounded hard in the early 2000s when Texas Ammo Company released its line-up of real 10mm ammo in four full-power loads: 135grns, 165grns, 180grns, and 200grns.

Soon afterward Mike McNett followed up, opening Double Tap Ammo out of his garage in Salt Lake City, Utah.

It's 2022 ... The 10mm's resurgence continues in full-swing and grows stronger each year. More pistols are being chambered for it; more real 10mm ammo is being offered.

The old is new again. Now it's the .40S&W's turn to be a dead round.

R.I.P.

 

[Bumpus13]

I'm happy that there are people who still love the .40

It leaves a bit more ammo on the shelves for me in my calibers.

 

[Ruger Nut]

40S&W is my favorite round. Yes, I own a few 9mm guns, but own 3 times as many .40 caliber guns. I for one DIDN'T follow suit and jump upon the FBI 9mm bandwagon.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

40S&W is my favorite round. Yes, I own a few 9mm guns, but own 3 times as many .40 caliber guns. I for one DIDN'T follow suit and jump upon the FBI 9mm bandwagon.

If you found 357 SIG conversion barrels for all of them you would have a total of 6 times as many...

I know: just wishful thinking on my part...?

But a SUB-2000 or a PC in 327 SIG would be pretty cool!

Cheers!

 

[Zarr]

Newbies tend to follow fads. Thirty years ago I bought Model 15s cheap because people dumped them to buy "wonder-nines". Now guns in .40 S&W are being dumped. Some stores even refusing to take them in on trade, and often when they do take them, they sit on the shelf for a while. Now, I am buying as many .40 S&W handguns (3rd gens) as I can find. Metal frame guns are not being made anymore.

 

[Lucifer]

I have many 40's and most have the 357 Sig conversion barrel...They are hot potent rounds, and I have not plans on selling any of them. Both the 40 S&W and the 357 Sig are head and shoulders over the 9mm. Everyone talks about modern bullet technology of the 9mm, but they never mention that the SAME bullet technology also improved 40 S&W and the 357 Sig.
Seems like it becomes a one side monologue comparing 9mm to any other caliber. With this all said, I also have many 9mm's and have uses for them and not getting rid of any them either......

 

[Echo40]

I've said it before and I will say it as many times as necessary, the improvements to 9mm JHP Bullets was non-applicable to other cartridges such as .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and .357 SIG because none of them required any improvements whatsoever because they already were capable of consistently meeting FBI Specifications.

9mm Luger was improved because there was room for improvement within the parameters of the FBI's Ballistics Testing. Keep in mind that all the FBI cares about are whether or not a cartridge can consistently pass their tests by landing within the confines of what they deem acceptable results.
They require their duty cartridge to be capable of reaching a depth between 12"-18" with full expansion in Organic Ballistics Gelatin through 4 layers of heavy denim. Initially, 9mm Luger JHPs couldn't reliable achieve such results, whereas .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and .357 SIG had no problem. If the improvements which were used on 9mm JHPs were applied to say .40 S&W, then the bullets would most likely overpenetrate, thusly rendering them a failure.

So no, other cartridges did not improve alongside 9mm Luger because they required no improvements, and any attempt to improve them in the same way would only make them perform outside of the FBI's Specifications, thus rendering them unfit for duty on the FBI Roster.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Whether a specific bullet of any caliber can "pass" the FBI's specification is certainly (for me, at least) A consideration...

But, not necessarily THE ONLY consideration. For me, at least?

Manufacturers continue to have SD bullet lines that may or may not claim to meet FBI specifications: Hornady Custom vs. Critical Duty vs. Critical Defense, or Federal PUNCH vs. HST to wit...

Cheers!

P.S. Not trying to start a fight here, but...

I don't agree that "improvements to 9mm JHP Bullets was (or "is"?) non-applicable to other cartridges" because certain aspects of those changes may well have been beneficial and improved performance when so applied: it well may be the case, in some specific instances? But, there's no evidence I know of that suggests ALL bullet development for calibers OTHER THAN 9mm was somehow terminated because some bullets already passed FBI specification, or that such changes would always or "only make them perform outside of the FBI's Specifications".

Too sweeping a statement without further evidence to support it, IMHO.

 

[Dave686]

Hopefully S&W will give me a Shield Plus in 40S&W

Caliber arguments will never end, people want what they want. I'm a 40S&W fan. All my S&W carry pistols are in 40S&W (Full size, Compact 2.0, and 1st gen Shield). I want the new Shield Plus, but it appears S&W has decided we don't need it in 40. Other manufacturers are the same in the compacts, Sig and Springfield has also decided we don't need 40's. So it appears to me I'm stuck with the Shield I have, if I want more capacity I will have to carry the larger 40 Compact 2.0.

I have to assume that S&W and the others have done this because the 40's aren't selling. Engineering can't be an issue because I have a Shield in .40. The Shield Plus just appears to be a wider grip with a staggered mag to fit more rounds.

I kicked around the idea of buying the Plus in 9 but decided against it. Hopefully S&W, Sig, or Springfield will, at some point, give us want we want in a Shield sized pistol.

 

[growr]

I no longer carry a 9mm, now it is a .40SW or .45Acp ....4 is a smaller number than a 9.

Something about lungs being blown out with a 9mm.....sarcasm intended!

Randy

 

[biku324]

Just bought a Shield 2.0 in 40 a couple of months ago - no troubles finding one.

 

[N4KVE]

S&W obviously feels the investment isn't worth the $ due to the falling 40 sales. The business I work for buys plenty of LE trade in's, & most are the 40. They don't sell quickly even though they are priced right. Eventually they all sell, but it takes some time. On models where a mfr sells both 9, & 40, the 9 wins, 3 to 4 times over. The 40 is a dead cartridge whose heyday is gone, but still has a small following. GARY

 

[ogso]

Interesting quote above how the more things change the more they stay the same. Long story but the short is my local PD first went with 59's, obviously 9mm. Then up to the 45 with real Colts's! Non them were ever traded in! Then they went to Glock 22's and the 40. That's the time I was given a G27 for helping a friend get a job. He hated it and loved his Firestar 9mm. Picked up a G22 to match since the 27 can handle the longer mags. Kicks a bit more than my 17 but not bad. Then city could not get enough 40 ammo (my wife was the buyer at that time and they bought semi trailers full!) so they switched again to the G17 in 9mm because they could get trailers full of ammo. Get the gist? In a few years after reviewing officer involved shooting stats my money says they go back to a 45 and start the whole process again. Our problem locally is the hit ratio... which is low low low. Someone also mentioned a hit with a 9mm is better than a miss with either a 40 of 45. I train with all three but carry the 9mm.

 

[galilman121]

I like the .40 and have great faith in it. I worked a lot of police shootings and learned one thing it does really well is kill people.

As stated above, to this statement I can concur. In thirty years of LE work with the last 18 years spent specifically in Forensic Death Investigation, the .40 caliber is highly effective, with very little overpenetration except for ball and truncated nose ammunition. When there are shootings (and my office sees a ton) the .40 caliber ammo is highly effective.

As a patrolman / patrol sergeant I always carried a .45 ACP Glock 21, but when I moved into investigations I began carrying .40 caliber handguns.

I have seen folks survive being shot multiple times with both 9mm (including + P) and .357 SIG rounds (with the smaller rounds having missed critical organs, and the SIG moving so fast that it hugged a rib on the front of a person, transected through the persons flank, and then zipped out a persons lower back muscles). Shot placement is always key in a terminal situation, and .40's and .45 ACP will take care of business.

I kinda laughed when agencies began dumping their 40's due to the FBI 9mm recommendation, because for all of us old enough to remember, they kicked off the whole "We're GONNA NEED A BIGGER BOAT" rush to 10mm.

I hope the .40 caliber ammunition is made for years to come as my 3rd GEN S&W's (4006, 4006 TSW CHP, 4053) and my IMI Jericho all need to be fed periodically.

 

[Roger Kipwell]

I like the .40. I used to use it for bowling pins. It took the pins off the table with far more authority than a 9mm.

 

[Model 15-4ever]

When I started my career in Law Enforcement in 2008 ,40 caliber was the ONLY caliber and if you carried a 9mm, you were a loser, , a girly man,who couldnt handle the manly Fortay!
Now my department carries....9mm's.
Funny how times change

Yup. A lot more girlies and girly men on the job now...

 

[3rdgenfriend]

I am brand new to .40 cal and really appreciate it. That may be due to the pistol itself. At my LGS I found a SW 99 (Walther/SW collaboration) that came with a 9 MM and .40 barrel. I shot a few mags of 9 and it was fantastic, I switched the barrel to the .40 and wow, what a great round, again, probably due to the pistol itself which is an excellent shooter. It's my only .40 caliber but now the door is open for me to look at other Gen1-3 SW .40 caliber semi's. My SW 99 is the one in the middle of the pic above is my 4506 and below is my EDC 365 XL. Again, was not looking for another caliber, but I am glad I discovered it for myself...

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Like many of you I really had no interest in the .40 as I saw it as an answer to a nonexistent problem. The infatuation I have for 3rd Gen S&W's led to not one but two CHP 4006TSW's. Then all of a sudden there are piles of .40 PD trade ins all over the place at cheap prices. I couldn't resist a Sig 226 for OTD at less than $300 from a local store. It was soon followed by a Glock 22 and during the recent ammo shortage .40 and .357 Sig were still available. One of my local stores even had PD turn in ammo and I was picking up .40 Federal HST for less than 9mm ball. That was a no brainer. I don't feel the .40 is any harder to control than 9mm, especially in the 4006. I'm not going to worry about it until they stop making ammo for it and in the meantime will enjoy some exceptional pistols that I got for a great price.

I got my first S&W 4006 in 1989 when they first came out. Got one 20 rd box of ammo with the gun. No outside ammo in 40 available then........SO........I made my own 40 cal. cases by shortening and inside neck reaming 10mm brass. And it worked fine. Can do it again f needed.

 

[firescout]

This is an interesting thread, which I initially missed earlier this year. A few statistics, such as gun shop sales and LE agency current issue/approved handguns, are not the end-all determiner of a handgun cartridge's "demise" or obsolescence. A cartridge can maintain popularity in the civilian world, even without high-volume gun store sales of new guns in that chambering. Some LE agencies have moved away from using .40 S&W, where others have retained its use to this day.

As for the .40 S&W cartridge itself, I have never purchased or desired a handgun in the chambering. I am not an active LE agency official. I do have some formal LE training from my earlier years in the fire service, with most of it being on firearms, investigation, and driving. I do not carry a sidearm for any of my fire investigation duties. So for me, handguns are for home/personal protection and sporting purposes. The .40 S&W doesn't fit in to those categories for my needs. I enjoy firearms, but I don't care to purchase and collect multiple versions of the same gun. I have 25 guns (14 long guns), but only three are centerfire semi-auto pistols: A S&W 908 9mm, an Auto Ordnance M1911A1 .45 ACP, and a Seecamp LWS32. I did have a Colt Officers ACP (3.5" bbl, six-shot .45 Auto) decades ago, but it was not pleasant to shoot much. I do have four centerfire revolvers and two blackpowder revolvers, though. I also handload virtually all of my metallic cartridge ammo, except rimfire and .32 ACP.

I am not the person that cares to be or needs to be a .40 S&W owner, and that's where I leave it.