Model 67 owners (specifically -1)

Buzzzer

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I recently acquired a 67-1 (serial starts with 24K) with matching box/paperwork/tools (not on-line). I don't believe it has had but maybe one box of ammo through it, if that. Beautiful piece that locks up tighter than practically any other Smith I own.

Now to the questions (please don't ask the "why's").

I was looking at speed loaders, specifically the Comp II as I've never owned them. As far as I have read they are larger than the HKS (which I currently have for other firearms). I've also read that Safariland/HKS are not on the quality standards they used to be. When swinging the cylinder out on the 67 I noticed that the original stocks protrude out much farther than I initially thought. What do you use for speed loaders? I'm not in the habit of throwing my money away on something that doesn't work and I don't care to replace/shave down (heaven forbid) the original stocks.

Seems to me that non +P ammo in 38 Special for SD is "almost" non-existent. I don't want to cause any premature wear and opinions are mixed as to +P's on the earlier 67's. I usually load a range round close to the same bullet weight/velocity as a SD round so the point of impact is pretty close. I like the "one and done" philosophy. Opinions? To answer ammo questions it would be for at home and occasional carry.

The specials as far as handguns go, IMHO, are just that, "special".

Thanks in advance for any info!
 
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I will pull out a couple of revolvers and get back to you shortly.

OK, I find:
The HKS, Comp II, and Dade K frame speed loaders are all 1.41" outside diameter, the Comp III is 1.44".

All load my M67-1 just fine but it has a cheap Hogue rubber Monogrip.

NONE will load my M19 in factory target grips with small scallop or M14 in factory target grips with large scallop.

I don't have a K frame in Magna grips to try. If you do, try the HKS, if it passes, the Comp II probably will.


Ammo:
My usual load is a standard velocity 158 or 160 gr roundnose for easy speed loading in IDPA matches.
If I kept a .38 for home defense instead of an automatic with three times the capacity, it would be with a 158 gr +P hollow point. I would expect at least fairly close POI at down the hall ranges and I doubt the few I shoot for refamiliarization would wear out the gun. My last purchase of hollow points for my Model 38 was the Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 gr +P, so you can see I don't worry about beating up a gun with low volume ammo.
 
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I use the HKS speed loaders more out of habit than any other reason. They have been durable, and I am used to them.

The Winchester Train and Defend 130 grain hollow point is a standard pressure round that did quite well from a 4" barrel in the testing that Lucky Gunner did. It also has the advantage of being a pretty good match to the most commonly available 38 Special training round, the 130 grain FMJ. I have not been able to find them, so I use the standard pressure Hornady 110 grain Critical Defense. It was not as impressive as the Winchester load in the Lucky Gunner testing, but I have seen other tests where it performed very well from a 4" barrel. It seems to be available everywhere.
 
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I carried a Model 67-1 on duty for many years. Safariland Comp II is all I used. Would not consider another type. Best wishes
 
I've got a 67-1 as well, a 25K serial number...it's a Louisville KY police turn-in in good/excellent condition with a superb DA & SA trigger. I suspect that at one point or another in its history, it's had some police armorer attention. (1st pic with Altamont Target grips, 3rd pic with Altamont 'Ropers' that are not compatible with HKS loaders)

For carry here on our farm, concealed mostly under a shirt tail or jacket, I like an open top, Tom Threepersons holster as built by El Paso Saddlery. The one shown below, I made with an open toe to allow extraneous debris to fall through when on the belt. (2nd Pic with my son's M-66 with Pachmayr's holstered)

The gun itself is tight as a tick and will accept HKS speed loaders when outfitted with either the Hogue Monogrisp or Altamont Target grips.

For loads, going to town, I like either Speer Gold Dot's at 135 gr for ~900 fps from a 4" bbl. or my own home rolled 158 gr LSWC's at the old FBI spec: 900-950 fps. Both of these are +P loadings, but it's my understanding that any S&W with a model number is good to go with +P's.

HTHs and that you enjoy yours as much as I do mine. Rod





 
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I would not worry about damaging your 67 with +p ammo.

First, you would have to shoot a LOT to get any measurable wear. Second, modern +p is not all that hot, far lighter than old .38/44 loads, and may even be lighter than some factory .38 special loads. The late Saxon Pig wrote some pretty detailed posts about that issue.

Understand that the pumped up loads were directed at a couple of specific problems, one of which was adequate penetration of the cars driven by criminals. Another, and less often addressed, is that the bullet shapes of the day were pretty poor. Almost all were round nose, which is not a good shape for use on living flesh, human or other animals. A good SWC will work FAR better. In addition, the training of cops and others for many years did not reflect what I have seen referred to as "tactical anatomy" - an understanding of where on a person to hit them with bullets in order to have the greatest chance of success in stopping them. Draw a one though the nipples, with a vertical line just inside each shoulder, and the top line across the top of the shoulders. Shoot for the center of that area. One the head (face), it is a triangle from the bottom of the nostrils to the outer corners of the eyes. (These all assume shooting from the front, which is most likely but not always true. Convert them to the side and rear in your head.)

Me? In my M66, I most often load it with 158 grain standard velocity (.38) SWC. I have qualified with hotter stuff, but my performance is a lot better with the SWCs. Placement matters more than pure power in service calibers. Remember that all handgun rounds suck and that we carry handguns because most of the time rifles are not an option for daily life. If you have notice of a problem, the first and best choice is to not be there. If you have to go (as cops do), take a properly loaded rifle.

Addendum regarding stocks. Take off the factory stocks and use them only for show. Pick stocks for shooting based on how they fit your hand and work with the speedloaders you find work best for you. If you are going to carry a sidearm for serious purposes, you need to assess what you need based on that. If it is purely a safe queen and model, that's a different issue. I came into the firearms world when revolvers ruled the roost. Only rarely were factory stocks considered a good choice by serious users. I think the only revolver on which I have factory, non-rubber stocks is a K38.
 
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My 67 is a no dash. I have Pachys on it. I have run it with Comp 1, 2 & 3 Safariland speed loaders. I prefer them over the HKS because the push release is simpler than turning the knob. I use HKS when Safariland no longer offers a loader for the frame/caliber combination I need.

All speed loaders are wear parts. They don't last forever. I carry one in the watch pocket of my jeans daily. In my experience the Safariland lasts longer than the HKS. (The knob detent eventually fails.)

I am a function over form guy. I have 2 absolute requirements for revolver grips: They have to fit my hand and allow adequate clearance for my speed loaders. Otherwise I need DIFFERENT grips.
 
Thanks so much for the information!

I, kinda figured, early on in my research that another grip might have to be in the cards with this one. Side by side with the 686+ 3-5-7 series is night and day, which goes without saying. I love the grip on the 686+ as it puts my trigger finger closer to, well, the trigger and it feels great in my hand. I did look at the Altamont website, specifically the Bateleur series with checkering but non are available, any, which I thought was kind of odd. Looking at their K U series for the RB's I wonder if they made the grips for the 3-5-7 series.

Range day will be soon but not until our 15 inches of snow melts a little...
 
@Buzzzer - As you've figured out, the factory Magna grips won't permit the use of speedloaders. I've got Spegel Boot Plus grips on my 67-1, and they work. Hogues work as well.

I used my 67-1 in IDPA for a couple of years and put several thousand +P-level handloads (158s at ~830 fps) through it. It's still tight. I've still got a bunch of .38s loaded to that level and use it in my K frames with no issues. I've also got a bunch of rounds loaded using Alliant's maximum standard pressure load for BE-86 (4.6 grains under a 158-grain coated LSWC) and it runs just over 800 fps from my 3" M10.

One of the best carry loads for the 67 is the old "FBI load" of a +P LSWC-HP 158-grain bullet, still produced by Remington and Winchester. The R-P version runs ~855 fps from my 4" guns. Since the 67 has adjustable sights, you can go to a lighter bullet if you wish, such as the Speer load noted by Jim above or one of the 125-130 grain loads offered by other companies. I use Winchester's Ranger Bonded 130-grain JHP in my 67-1 and the R-P version of the FBI load in my M10s.
 
Good to know about the +P ammo as it opens up possibilities.

I swear sometimes I think I was born into a later generation than I should have been. I like revolvers, shoot them well and prefer them. "What? You like/carry a revolver? Are you nuts?", ya, guess so, that's me...:cool:
 
The factory has stated on several occasions that any steel K or N frame model stamped .38 Special or .357 Magnum is safe for + P .38. I've shot the Speer Short Barrel 135 gr + P in several different guns and subjectively it does not seem heavily loaded. It was the issue load for the NYPD DAO model 64s when they were authorized.

And you can actually buy it:

Availability - Speer .38 Special +P 135 Grain Gold Dot
 
I bought my 67 no dash from an LGS in 2006. The original magnas were long gone. The gun did however come with the original box and papers that it came with. Sold new by the LGS where I bought it. Price tag says $175. The gun had a nice set of S&W checkered rose wood targets on it when I got it. These are now on my 14-3. At this time another LGS had a bin full of beat up stocks that were taken off of LE trade ins. For $6 I bought a pair of smooth rosewood S&W targets that had one of those lanyard plates screwed to the butt. Most of the finish was gone and the right panel had some dings and gouges.

The first step was to reshape the lower portion of the stocks. The cross section of the butt on these stocks is oval. I reshaped the lower portion so that the cross section is egg shaped , thinner to the front. I also did a slight thinning of the left panel at the speed loader cut out. After filling the holes at the bottom and cleaning up the dings and gouges I applied several coats of Tru Oil. These stocks look great on this gun and fit my hand perfectly. I have only used HKS speed loaders and they work great with these stocks on the gun. I have a 4 cavity Lyman mold for their 170 gr SWC . With with a full charge of Unique it is sighted to 15 yards. After a factory action job with a Combat Target trigger installed this gun had the best DA pull I have ever handled. Along with the model 15 these have to be the all time best .38 revolver. While I like my model 10 and 64 the adjustable sight on the Combat Masterpiece are a nice feature.
 
@Buzzzer - ...One of the best carry loads for the 67 is the old "FBI load" of a +P LSWC-HP 158-grain bullet, still produced by Remington and Winchester. The R-P version runs ~855 fps from my 4" guns. Since the 67 has adjustable sights, you can go to a lighter bullet if you wish, such as the Speer load noted by Jim above or one of the 125-130 grain loads offered by other companies. I use Winchester's Ranger Bonded 130-grain JHP in my 67-1 and the R-P version of the FBI load in my M10s.
Very good advice...the FBI load especially.

I have duplicated it with a Mihec version of Lyman's 358156GC, fitted out with three types of HP pins. The best of them is the "Penta" cavity one, which gives me my best accuracy. Using a wheel weight based alloy of 1/3, WW to Pb allows good expansion at ~850 fps in water filled milk jugs. The one woodchuck I've shot with it showed a 50 cent piece sized exit wound after passing though length wise. Here on the farm, when carrying one of the 4" bbl's, it's what I usually load, and in the .38 Spl case too. Better ejection with that shorter brass than Magnums in my 66, 19's, or 5" 27.

I'm adverse to CC with handloads when going to town, and wish I could find a box or two of the R-P or Winchester version of the FBI load but to no avail. Generally, for trips off the farm, I load up with the Gold Dot 135 gr HP +P .38 Spl round. It's a good carry combination with my M-60 3" bbl'd carry piece, and even better in the 67-1 or the M-66.

Best regards, Rod
 

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