Factory 357 mag brass incorrect OAL

[Miracle Man]

So I just finished loading some 357 mag with 140 gr Hornady FTX's using CFE Pistol. I had inside/outside chamfered the mouths and was like a dozen cases in when I pulled a round out of the seating die station and noticed the cannelure was fully showing.

My first thought was I short stroked the lever so I seated it again, still showing full cannelure. So I got to looking closer and stood it up beside a previously loaded round. And I'm like that brass is short and I know it. So I pulled bullet and sure enough it's only 1.252. Factory specs as you all know for 357 is 1.290.

So I pulled my can of 357 brass out probably had 100 cases in it and went thru them all and found two more. All three are Hornady. I'm like 99.875% sure this was once fired factory brass. Anybody else ever seen this?

 

[505Gibbs]

IMO it's not unusual at all.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

If you research the Hornady load data for the 140gr FTX bullet you will see the SPECIAL case length requirements: the 357 Magnum brass is to be trimmed to 1.240"...

Cheers!

P.S. Although not specifically mentioned on the Hodgdons site, that's a fact, Jack.

 

[Sevens]

Hornady does this in other calibers also and I believe, especially for a company that does a gujillion things for handloaders and for a company that markets a gujillion products specifically to handloaders, this is an absolutely abhorrent practice and Hornady should be violently and publicly flogged for it.

Just this guy's opinion, and for the record, I am absolutely a Hornady fan.

 

[ddixie884]

It is not uncommon for Hornady brass to be short as they require a short length with many of their plastic ended bullets...............

 

[Nevada Ed]

I posted this picture a long time ago, when that plastic tip ammo first came out.

The information of the different case length was listed by the company, back then.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Their short 45-70 brass has messed up many people new to reloading!

Ivan

 

[TIMETRIPPER]

If you think that's bad, stay away from the 32-20 WCF.

John

 

[Miracle Man]

You learn something new everyday I guess?

 

[Miracle Man]

Hornady does this in other calibers also and I believe, especially for a company that does a gujillion things for handloaders and for a company that markets a gujillion products specifically to handloaders, this is an absolutely abhorrent practice and Hornady should be violently and publicly flogged for it.

Just this guy's opinion, and for the record, I am absolutely a Hornady fan.

I agree 1000%

 

[venomballistics]

Yeah... It's not new.
Their 45-70 ftx ammo is especially pronounced

 

[ameridaddy]

It happens, and not just with Hornady brass. I bought 500 new in the bag Starline 45 Colt cases a few years ago. Starline is excellent brass, and per my normal practice with pistol brass, I checked the length of each and trim them all the same length to get a nice uniform crimp from case to case.
I'm not OCD, because I do this just once. With minimal bell and crimp and non-max loads, they all stay the same length for many reloads.
Anyhow, I found nearly 100 out of the 500 were less than SAAMI minimum length. My LGS replaced them for me. Stuff happens; nothing is perfect.

 

[Sevens]

^^Not sure how that really fits here. That was a production anomaly and was replaced.

Hornady makes this junk brass ON PURPOSE.

 

[ameridaddy]

^^Not sure how that really fits here. That was a production anomaly and was replaced.

Hornady makes this junk brass ON PURPOSE.

I see what you mean now.
Maybe they should call it 357 Hornady rather than 357 magnum.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The shorter brass from Normandy for their FTX ammo is not junk brass. If you want to load the FTX bullets the brass already being crimes is a good thing. Just set it aside if you shoot factory ammo.

 

[twodog max]

After 50+ years of reloading I have seen all sorts of things. The Hornady brass is made that way intentionally for reloading the FTX bullets. There is no secret about this and it should be common knowledge by now. If one does not like this do not pick it up as range brass or save it if bought new. Or you could reload it as Hornady does.
For the record I find Starline brass of excellent quality and have thousands of them including 357. The only ones I have ever trimmed for specific length were 44/40. And this was only because the 44/40 is very thin necked and requires consistency to prevent seating problems. Not that the brass was all that inconsistent in length it just makes this hard to get brass last much longer.
My advice is do not get all torn up over small things.

 

[TheTinMan]

Hornady does this in other calibers also and I believe, especially for a company that does a gujillion things for handloaders and for a company that markets a gujillion products specifically to handloaders, this is an absolutely abhorrent practice and Hornady should be violently and publicly flogged for it.

Just this guy's opinion, and for the record, I am absolutely a Hornady fan.

The Hornady LeverEvolution brass is all short. Yes, their loading manual is very clear about this. NO it is not acceptable. If they want to make a different case length, they need a different head stamp. I am 100% certain that Starline’s 45 Cowboy Special brass has a different head stamp from their normal length 45 Colt brass.

I am no longer a Hornady fan but best not get into that can of worms.

 

[mtgianni]

As said above seen most often with the LeverEvolution brass and Failure To eXpand bullet. Sorry that is what my mind thinks when I see FTX.

 

[mikld]

Since approx. 1970 I have been seating all revolver bullets to the crimp groove/cannelure, and disregarded book OAL (manuals are published results of a cartridge loaded to the dimensions the tester used). In thousands of handloads from 32 S&W Long to 45 Colt in , IIRC, 12 revolvers I have had very good results with zero problems. Many times when seating to book OAL the groove/cannalure was either too deep in the case or above the case mouth, neither desirable for crimping. When I started reloading I believed the bullet designer knew where to locate the groove/cannalure for safest, best performance.

Hornady Leverevolution and the short case for a specific XTP handload are exceptions and IIRC, stated in Hornady manuals...

 

[STORMINORMAN]

And the REASON behind the difference in Hornady's FTX case length is to facilitate loading in (primarily) LEVER ACTION RIFLES and makes little difference in revolvers as long as the cylinder length is sufficient...

As for cans (or crimp grooves), there are certain bullets (Federal Micro HST JHP-WC, various Sierra/SIG V-Crown, etc.) that have what APPEARS to be a cannelure but is designed to further secure the bullet core and jacket and is definitely NOT designed to be used as a crimping location.

These are typically jacketed vs. some plated and most cast lead bullets, as mlkld suggests, BTW.

Cheers!