Brass deposit form vertical lines on Dillon powder funnel

[rhodesengr]

I am looking to see if anyone here understands why brass deposit form evenly spaced vertical line around the end of a Dillion powder funnel.

background: I have been using a Dillon SDB for a few months now. I was loading 45 ACP using new brass and I started to feel substantial resistance on the upstroke. I tracked it down to stage 2. I called Dillon and they explained that new brass or overly cleaned brass will leave deposits on the funnel and there is also galling that occurs. They suggested polishing the end of the funnel and using case lube. I am working on those things. I did some Google searching and I am not the first person to run into this. Seems to be a pretty well known problem.

But I have a specific question here. Does anyone understand why the brass deposits form evenly spaced vertical lines? Makes me think the machining process somehow leaves ridges around the part.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Used brass that has been cleaned without stainless steel pins or "Tarnish Remover", leave a fouling residue inside the case, that residue works like a lubricant when flaring the case mouths.

You can actually load cases that have never been cleaned! So you can have a bowl of cases that are still dirty inside to mix in with the squeaky-clean cases.

Also you may need to reduce the amount of case mouth flair to the minimum. this lessons the contact surface, and allows more new brass between carboned brass.

I use a 550 so I have the same powder system, this doesn't happen with corncob or walnut media, just the wet stainless steel pins.

Ivan

 

[ruggyh]

The brass line is the result of brass being transferred to the funnel due to friction.

As stated above some "lubrication" will prevent an reduce the ring but the ring poses no issue with reloading.

 

[rhodesengr]

Used brass that has been cleaned without stainless steel pins or "Tarnish Remover", leave a fouling residue inside the case, that residue works like a lubricant when flaring the case mouths.

You can actually load cases that have never been cleaned! So you can have a bowl of cases that are still dirty inside to mix in with the squeaky-clean cases.

I understand all this now. I am only looking for an explanation for the vertical lines. Trying to get understand why the deposits are so regular and not random. Seems to suggest a machines ng issue with the funnel. In

 

[tmd17]

It very well may be ridges on the funnel. If it is something you are comfortable doing, you can remove the funnel and polish the end to a mirror like finish.

Start with wet automotive sand paper. 400 - 600 grit then work it up to 1000 grit. Keep the paper wet. After wet sanding, move to some flitz on a rag, then finish off with mothers. If you have a large enough drill chuck to hold the funnel, that can speed things up but move slowly.

 

[Skeet 028]

seriously it is fairly simple. once a case leaves even a very little residue of brassor anything else...it will continue to build in the same area. Polish all you want...eventually the same thing will happen when you flare the end of the cases so you can seat a bullet. The bit of soot on fired cases act as a lubricant so it takes longer. Tumble brass in corncob with a bit of auto wax or even case lube and it will take longer to get the build up. Even though I use carbide dies on handgun cases...I still lightly use spray lube. And yep...I get the same striations on the funnel. Pull the funnel every 1000 rounds or so and polish the funnel with 4 ought steel wool...put it back in

 

[H Richard]

I tumble my brass with corn cob media, and a little "brightener" and I have never had any problem. A little "residue" in the case actually is beneficial. Been doing it this way for nearly 40 years now.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I tumble my brass with corn cob media, and a little "brightener" and I have never had any problem. A little "residue" in the case actually is beneficial. Been doing it this way for nearly 40 years now.

I use a 50/50 mix of corn cob and crushed walnut shells which works well for me. The shells remove the tougher stuff and the corn cob seems to shine it up nicely.

 

[Paul in Nevada]

Personally, I wet tumble and lube handgun brass when using the Dillon. A lot of people would turn up their noses at the thought of lubing straight walled handgun brass but I believe it saves a lot of trouble.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Personally, I wet tumble and lube handgun brass when using the Dillon. A lot of people would turn up their noses at the thought of lubing straight walled handgun brass but I believe it saves a lot of trouble.

I have found a little Imperial Sizing Wax on every tenth case or so of 9mm and 45 ACP really helps when sizing those cases. Needed? No, but like said above, it saves trouble.

 

[dogdoc]

The wet clean with stainless pins just get them too clean. Just tumble them a few hours in corn cob or walnut and your problem will go away. Been loading on Dillon’s since the 1980s and the only ones I have had stick on the powder funnel/expander have been the wet tumbled. The new starline brass has not been a problem for some reason. Never a problem with tumbled brass. That little bit of carbon in the case is great I usually hit the cases with some hornady one shot on all my handgun calibers(only on the outside of the case)

 

[358156hp]

My Dillon 9mm powder funnel did the same thing and I replaced it with one from Mr Bulletfeeder. My funnel was actually scored and the scratches filled up with brass transfer from the cases. The filled scratches would later come loose and embed themselves in the crimp die, scoring the cases on the outside.

 

[austintexas]

Dillons

I have 3 Square deals, first one I bought so long ago I paid $138.00 and I've never run into this problem.
SWCA 892

 

[BB57]

Way back in the day (1980s) I messed around with wet cleaning and wet tumbling - and went back to dry tumbling with walnut or corn cob media.

But wet tumbling and the hand loader version of obsessive compulsive disorder is the current fad. As such, old lessons will end up being relearned. For most cartridges the juice just isn’t worth the squeeze.

 

[Skeet 028]

You know...for some reason I have to agree...not worth the squeeze. But then again I have a lot o 38 sp brass I am going to load...at least 1000 are older Peters Brand. I even have boxes for most of 'em. I definitely want them to look as new. They are once fired. With 357 I can make the ones I want to shine like new if they are my high end loads. And my rifle ammo needs so much trimming blah blah blah I night as well make 'em look new. I've got about 500 each of 22 Hornet and 222 Rem and they look new...much handgun brass gets processed through a vibrating tumbler and gets loaded then after 3 or so loads gets made shiney again

 

[rhodesengr]

Well still no actual explanation why the deposits are vertical. But I have followed Dillon's advice and my SDB is running so much smoother now.

Polish the funnel
Lube the brass

I like to try different things because I am approaching this as a hobby. So far for lube, I have tried DIY 10% Lanolin in HEET gas treatment (red bottle) and Hornady One Shot Spray. They both seemed to work about the same. Zero hang-ups but still a small amount of brass transfer after 100 rounds. I also have some of Dillon's newer synthetic lube which I will try next.

I found one thing with making the DIY stuff. Ultimate Reloading has a video showing the making of DIY Lanolin lube. He shows using 99% Isopropyl Alcohol. I tried that and I found it didn't easily dissolve the Lanolin. You end up with more of a suspension that settles out after a while. I saw a lot of references in forums to using red bottle HEET which is easily obtained at any automotive store. I got mine at Auto Zone for like 3 buck a bottle. That stuff is also 99% IPA but according to its SDS, it contains 1% proprietary something. It readily dissolves the Lanolin for an actual solution. I am guessing its Ether which is listed as a solvent for Lanolin. In any event, it's easy to get and works well.

Polishing is easier said than done. Folks throw around a lot of product names. But all of the retail metal polishes have undisclosed grit size. Or you have at least have to dig to find them. I never tried to polish steel before so it was a new thing for me. I had polished epoxy surfboards before but they polish like car paint so you can use car paint products. Steel needs different products.

I had a tube of Blue Magic which was actually suggested here in another thread to remove carbon from a revolver cylinder. I bought it for that but never used it. With some digging, it turns out that Blue Magic has 400 grit which about 40 microns. That sounded course but with the right pad, it gives a pretty much mirror polish.

Also widely mentioned is Flitz. With some digging, it turns out that Flitz has 4000 grit or about 5 micros. So one approach would be to polish first with Blue Magic and then with Flitz.

With things like polishing, I would prefer to use technically specified products where the grit size is clearly stated. McMaster has such products in the form of hard bars. They suggest a two step process. First with 40 micron and then a "coloring" polish with 5 down to as small as 1 micron. So that is basically the same as Blue magic followed by Flitz. I ordered some of their compounds and will be trying them as time permits.

I happen to have a stereo microscope so as I polish I can check what is actually going on.

I do understand that dry tumbling may not have as much of this issue but that may not help with new brass which is what I am now using.

 

[rosewood]

Well, this post was quite helpful. I purchased some wet tumbled 38 special brass a while back. I have been loading up a lot of 38 specials with that brass and have been seeing lots of brass powder on my press. Was wondering the cause, and I do believe it because the brass is too clean. I think I am going to tumble them in my corn cob media with some nu-finish and see if that takes care of the problem.

Rosewood

 

[Krogen]

Stainless pin wet cleaning: I've posted about it before, but perhaps you'll all allow me to repeat myself, repeat myself, repeat myself . . . .

I use this method for range brass picked up in plate matches. Unknown heritage and often with sand or grit from the range. This cleaning method is perfect for this use. However as many say, the cases get "squeeky clean." They drag on my Dillon's expander leaving the brass marks described above. Sizing takes more effort even with carbide dies. Primers are tougher to seat. Yep, IMNHO, they get too clean with this cleaning method.

One trick is to add car wash n' wax to the cleaning soup. Leaves a film of wax on the cases. I tried Hornady One Shot lube on the cleaned cases, but it is slippery enough that I had troubles with bullet setback. A simple push on the case's base with the bullet against my bench easily moved the bullet in. Not good in a 9mm pistol.

I will try the lanolin/alcohol (or heet) approach. Although I've heard about it for years, I never did give it a go. A buddy uses this method successfully. I have a sprayer, lanolin and alcohol. Only feeble excuses have prevented me from trying it.

 

[oysterer]

I clean in a vibratory tumbler w either lizard bedding (walnut) or corncob w a cap of cheap car polish w bentonite in it, then dump a few hundred cases in a quart ziplock bag and spritz 2 spritzes of Dillon case lube or Isopropanol w 5% lanolin on the cases and never had a problem in decades

 

[Paul in Nevada]

I tried Hornady One Shot lube on the cleaned cases, but it is slippery enough that I had troubles with bullet setback...

This is my method with One-Shot:
I take a large ziplock bag and spray the inside with One-Shot, maybe a 2-3 second burst. Then I fill the bag about halfway or so with cases. I haven't counted but it's several hundred. I zip up the bag so that it is full if air, like a balloon. Then I shake vigorously like I am seasoning fried chicken, then pour it out one layer deep on a paper towel and let it air dry. With this method I get just a tiny bit inside the case mouths and primer pockets. Enough for easy flaring and seating, not enough for things to come loose.