Brass deposit form vertical lines on Dillon powder funnel

[rhodesengr]

I use a combination of 90% isopropyl alcohol (it is actually a gasoline additive) and 10% pure lanolin. It mixes very well and stays in solution. I put it in a glass spray bottle. It works as well as Lyman spray on lube and is far, far less expensive.

yes HEET (red bottle)
https://www.autozone.com/fuel-and-e...r/p/iso-heet-injector-cleaner-12oz/136368_0_0

 

[rosewood]

I have ways of polishing, just couldn't use my mill or press. I typically just polish with straight fine sand paper and or dremel with polishing wheel. Mill or press just gives you an even polish, takes the unsteady hand out of the equation.

Rosewood

 

[rhodesengr]

My polishing obsession continues. I got a hold of some diamond polishing compound: 50,000 grit (.5 micron) and 100,000 grit (.25micron). $13 bucks each for a 5 gram syringe on Amazon. Both funnels in the photos I had already polished down to Osborn Green which is supposed to be 1micron. The lower funnel I polished for a about 1 minute each with the .5micron and then the .25micron. Both of these look very mirror-like to the naked eye but under the microscope you can see various degrees of scratching. Just about anything that looks like a scratch is gone when you get down to .25 micron. At .5 micron, I could still see scratches but they were much lighter than the upper funnel. I found the best way to see the surface defects was to put the funnels at a slight angle. If you leave them flat, you just see a reflection of the light source like in my previous post.

 

[socal s&w]

rhodesengr
You have gone far, far beyond any polishing that I have done on my SDB powder/flare drops.
Fantastic work!
Now, do they work by not leaving the brass deposit lines?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

My eyes are bleeding!!!!

I have never seen brass or a funnel that shiny in my life, and I'm fairly old lol...
Amazing you got it that smooth.

 

[rhodesengr]

rhodesengr
Fantastic work!
Now, do they work by not leaving the brass deposit lines?

Thanks. You of course asked the key question. How good does the surface need to be? I have no idea but when I first called Dillion, they said to polish the funnel and use lube. I just got interested in the whole polishing thing and its highly likely that all you really need is lube. I get into these things because I learn something.

Part of me wonders if polishing is even a good idea in the first place because galling is from two metal surfaces interacting and if you polish the surface, you increase the contact surface area. Even highly polished surfaces are far from smooth. I have experience with this doing very high current contact joints with my work stuff.

But I ran into something else with the polishing stuff. Some of the vendors are not transparent about grit size. Polishing is grit, grit, and nothing but grit. If you go to buy sandpaper, every company simply prints on the back of the paper what the grit size is. It turns out the it's very different situation when you start looking at polishing compounds. Almost none of them say what grit size is in their compounds. This is true in the automotive polishing world, and industrial metal polishing. They just go by the color of their bars. I get pissed off by this and it makes me dig until I find what I want. I started using the Osborn bars because McMaster listed the grit size. I emailed Osborn to confirm the grit sizes and did get a reply back asking which exact products I have. I have not heard back from them yet. One company that has a lot of internet presence is Maverick Abrasives. They have a Youtube video showing polishing steel. I emailed them also to ask about grit size and they were particularly rude about not providing any grit size info. They just want to sell their "purple" bar which according to my tests, didn't look any better than the Osborn green bar.

I wanted to see if I could do better than the Osborn Green (allegedly 1 micron). The diamond polishing compounds on Amazon are from this company
About Us - TechDiamondTools - Silicon Valley based manufacturer
They are actually located in Silicon Valley and they are 100% transparent about grit size.

There are a lot of retail polishing products out for general use (Blue Magic, Flitz, etc) and the gun world also has "gun specific" polishes but none of these are transparent about grit size.

Now that I've been through all this, I think one could use 400 and 600 emery paper followed by the diamond compounds starting at 40 micron and going down as low as you think you need to go. I am at .25micron now and have the .1 micron stuff on order. How far down do you really need to go? I have no idea. I am going down to .1micron and over the next few months, I will see if this actually seems to work better or still transfers brass.

As far as how to apply these compounds, I think the Dremel type felt wheels are as good as anything. Amazon has lots of low cost assortments from various vendors. I think it is better to spin the funnel also but with Dremel wheels, you can probably get by without spinning the funnel.

 

[Paul in Nevada]

I worry that you have gone off the deep end. I think you long ago passed the point of diminishing returns. Like you said, your polishing has simply increased the contact area. While you were on the UniqueTek page you could have just bought their funnels and called it a day. That being said, I am fascinated to see how much further you will take this project.

 

[rhodesengr]

While you were on the UniqueTek page you could have just bought their funnels and called it a day.

Maybe but I wonder what their initial surface looks like compared to what I am getting. But what about after some use? It will no doubt get some brass transfer and then need cleaning and repolishing.

I am still waiting on my .1 micron stuff. Its supposed to come tomorrow. But this evening I tried the .25micron stuff with different application methods. It really makes a difference how you apply it. My best result has been with a microfiber cloth and a very light touch. The same cloth with more pressure gives a more scratched surface. I also tried Dremel felt pads spun with the Dremel and a red foam pad not spun. Both of these looked worse than the light touch MF cloth.

 

[Skeet 028]

Seriously...just give the darn thing a wipe every now and then with 4/0 steel wool. A little spray lube may help. You have visited the end of polish were there is no extra gain. At least for all purpose anyway. Got to admit...nice polish though. Now go load! lol

 

[ruggyh]

Maybe but I wonder what their initial surface looks like compared to what I am getting. But what about after some use? It will no doubt get some brass transfer and then need cleaning and repolishing.

I am still waiting on my .1 micron stuff. Its supposed to come tomorrow. But this evening I tried the .25micron stuff with different application methods. It really makes a difference how you apply it. My best result has been with a microfiber cloth and a very light touch. The same cloth with more pressure gives a more scratched surface. I also tried Dremel felt pads spun with the Dremel and a red foam pad not spun. Both of these looked worse than the light touch MF cloth.

Can you please tell us how much better ammo produced by polished funnel performs vs. that of the unpolished funnel.

 

[tmd17]

Seriously...You have visited the end of polish were there is no extra gain...lol

Dare I mention how rough the INSIDE of the funnels can be?

Powder clinging and producing inconsistent drops? Possibly at least a 0.33% drop to drop variance with some fine flakes. Enough to keep the OCD hand loaders among us awake at night!

 

[BE Mike]

Well, at least this thread got me to clean off all the "lines" off my Dillon powder funnel and to polish it to an extent. I never have done that in countless thousands of .45 ACP reloads! I doubt that I'll tell much difference after a while, but it made me feel not so lazy!

 

[Krogen]

Guys , , , I think we oughta ease up on the OP. I may not ultra-polish my expanders, but I did learn a heckuvalot about polishing.

I am OCD about handloading. But of course, I wonder if I'm OCD enough! (only half joking). As an example, I just bought one of Creedmoor's scales. It resolves 0.01 grains, has a 3 weight calibration routine and comes with 3 F-1 cal weights. F-1 cal weights are better than 10x the scale's resolution which is right for the task.

Why do I "need" 0.01 grain resolution? Well, I don't usually. Loading for my 32 S&W, I may. With typical charges of 1.5 grain, I don't want to put up with 0.1 gr precision. It feeds my technical mind. Now that I can measure to that precision, it's been interesting to see how well my powder measure and Chargemaster throw powder charges. For example the vertical strings I get at 500 yds. I've traced that to muzzle velocity variations. And I learned the Chargemaster usually is +/- 0.05 gr, but some throws are nearly 0.1 grain high or low. That 0.2 grain window is sufficient (based on Quickload) to give me vertical strings at long distance.

Like the op and polishing, it's a learning experience. A day with something learned is a good day. Eh?

 

[rhodesengr]

Can you please tell us how much better ammo produced by polished funnel performs vs. that of the unpolished funnel.

Sure. Probably no difference at all. The issue that got me started on this had nothing to do with ammo quality. The issue was a huge amount of resistance on the SDB upstroke. The cases were literally sticking (galling or cold-welding) to the expander. It took a lot of force to get the handle up and when the case broke free, the machine would jump enough to throw powder out of the case in stage 2 on its way to stage 3.

I called Dillon and they told me what was going on and that I should polish the end of the funnel and use case lube on the inside and outside of the cases.

This thread started out asking about the vertical lines of brass deposit that were accumulating on the powder funnel but sort of morphed into my new found obsession with polishing.

So the polishing is about smooth machine operation. Certainly that leads indirectly to more consistent ammo if powder popping is eliminated.

I approach this a hobby and opportunity to learn new things. I get accused all the time of "over-thinking" things. Some guys will always do that but other guys might find something useful. Also, a thread like this forms kind of journal as to what I did which I can go back to when I forget what I did (which happens all the time). Kind of like a "lab notebook". Last year I did something similar with #00 buckshot rounds. I wanted to make my own. I started out with good experience making Trap loads but knowing nothing about buckshot. By the end, I had two very good builds including professional testing and my own patterning. I chronicled the process in a thread called "Project Buckshot" on a different forum (SGW). Folks regularly come on there with new threads asking about buckshot. I just send them the link to that thread.

 

[Paul in Nevada]

That mini lathe is sure neat but a bit too spendy. There are a few cheaper ones in the $500-600 range but the reviews are all over the map. It's a cool idea but maybe not something you can do on the cheap.

 

[Skeet 028]

Dare I mention how rough the INSIDE of the funnels can be?

Enough to keep the OCD hand loaders among us awake at night!

Now that is a point well taken. The inside could be rough to the point of restricting the flow of some coarse grained flake powders. especially on those high humidity and conversely ultra low humidity days(happens here in summer) The low humidity days quite often have a real static electricity problem . All of my Dillon funnels have had a tight brass brush chucked in a drill and wrapped with 4/0 steel wool polished inside. I also did the same with my progressive shotshell loaders powder drop tubes...esp small gauge like 28 and 410. When I worked on P-Ws and Mec progressives I found that there were sometimes a bit of a ridge on the bottom of the drop tubes. I do have to say...you don't really need to be obsessed with internal polish but as some will tell you...ground your press to keep the static problem down...very smooth internal builds static somewhat more so than unpolished...or so it seems. Think larger flake shotgun/pistol powders and very fine ball. I had some very fine surplus that was great in the 410(called Magic) and it was terrible about static esp with CF AA 410s. I think IIRC it was a fast batch of Wc 820. Wc 820 was originally used in the 30 carbine and a predecessor of 295/296, so I was lead to believe

 

[rhodesengr]

Dare I mention how rough the INSIDE of the funnels can be?

There is a video on You Tube of a guy polishing the inside of the funnel. I think once you have some polishing stuff, its just a matter of working up a tool to get inside the funnel. I have sticky-back sandpaper which could go on a dowel but that stuff only goes up to 320. I am sure folks here would have all kinds of good idea. Probably don't have to go anywhere near as fine.

That mini lathe is sure neat but a bit too spendy. There are a few cheaper ones in the $500-600 range but the reviews are all over the map. It's a cool idea but maybe not something you can do on the cheap.

I am mostly now using the Wen Drill with or without a Dremel. The Wen drill is only $109 on Amazon and you either need the Uniquetech adapter or the Wen chuck upgrade.

 

[Paul in Nevada]

I am mostly now using the Wen Drill with or without a Dremel. The Wen drill is only $109 on Amazon and you either need the Uniquetech adapter or the Wen chuck upgrade.

I have a similar Harbor Freight drill press. I wonder if the Wen is built to tighter tolerances. My HF unit has a bit of runout in the spindle. It's fine for woodworking but not tight enough for gunsmithing. I guess it would be fine for polishing. Interesting idea.

 

[rhodesengr]

I have a similar Harbor Freight drill press.

I imagine your HF drill press would be fine for polishing. There is a video on Youtube where a guy does a very detailed comparison between the HF press, the Wen press, and a press he had from before. I think, as you are seeing the HF press isn't so great. In either case I think they both have JT33 tapers on the chuck so if your chuck doesn't open big enough you would have to use the adapter from Unique or change chucks. I bought my Wen and the bigger chuck at the same time and the press comes without the OEM chuck installed so I just installed the upgrade chuck from the start. Amazon has the JT33 wedge set for about $13.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhrZJGrFBHY&t=216s&pp=ygUhd2VuIGRyaWxsIHByZXNzIHZzIGhhcmJvciBmcmVpZ2h0[/ame]

 

[Paul in Nevada]

Yeah I might upgrade. I have owned Wen tools before that were decent.