27-2 stripped yoke screw

[azazel1024]

New to me 27-2 .357. Obviously not new

I picked her up, nickel plated. Rough shape cosmetically. But the price was very right. I hope. In the shop, it seemed functionally very good. Only a very slight amount of very shallow pitting in the grooves of the barrel in a spot. The lands look perfect. On the strap it corroded through kind of bad in one spot maybe 1/32" deep on the corner of one side of the strap about 1/4" wide. A couple of other small spots it corroded through the finish. Story was estate sale, the guy was a hoarder and his family has been bringing in long guns, one or two every month or two. First time they've run across a handgun. Its probably sat somewhere for years. Maybe decades.

Anyway, I stripped it down. The yoke screw was hesitant to come loose, everything came apart fine. Barely noticeable corrosion anywhere inside the gun. A spot on the frame to trigger spring rebound housing that I stoned, #1000 just a few passes, as it was slightly high from corrosion. I didn't touch the case hardened hammer or trigger themselves as there is some corrosion discoloration on a couple of spots, but nothing eaten in to it. Just cleaned and oiled.

When I went to put it back together, the yoke screw spun. Getting the plate back off, it looks like the threading is good from about 11 to 1 o'clock in the hole, and the rest is missing on the frame. It doesn't even look stripped, its almost like the hole was off set cut for threading. I've got NO clue how the heck that could happen, even at the factory. I suppose the threading could have stripped and worn smooth. The threading that is there is just enough that with a flat head bit in my fingers I can get it tight without spinning and I am putting a fair amount of force with my fingers. On a screwdriver it'll just spin with some resistance (not that I am trying that anymore). I would guess somewhere in the 10in-lbs range for torque.

So put a solid glop of red locktite on there and finger tightened it down. The yoke appears to be retained by it still even though it isn't all THAT tight.

So question(s). This is safe, right? All that screw is really doing in the end is retaining the yoke so that the yoke and cylinder don't fall off the gun when I am reloading it? It locks up nicely. There doesn't appear to be excessive end shake or cylinder shake that I can tell (I don't have any other smiths though. Just an old Colt OP and a Dan Wesson 44).

I would like to get this corrected at some point. I have a lot of skills, but this one feels like take it to a professional gunsmith or see if the factory can fix it. I've never shipped a gun before, let alone handgun. How painful is that going to be? Am I going to have to go local FFL to ship it out and then shipped back to the FFL? Or can the factory at least ship it back to me direct?

In the meantime, is this safe to shoot? I'd think yes, but I also don't want my anxiety over it, and also anxiousness to shoot it, be clouding my judgement and none of my internet search terms is coming up with much. Other than that newer S&Ws have a different yoke screw design that is spring loaded and their cylinders and yokes fall off sometimes. So that leads me to believe I am correct. The worst that happens is the yoke and cylinder fall off at some point if the screw backs out. Which I'd think it shouldn't, despite it not being strongly retained, with some red locktite on there.

There is a smith near me that is highly recommended. I have reached out to him and waiting to hear back if he can fix it and when, but he is usually backed up several months with work. I'd rather not wait that long to shoot this.

Lastly, if there is no other hope. Is it safe enough to just leave it and it might never be an issue? Or how the heck to fix it? I can't even find a helicoil kit in the right size (5-44, right?). They seem to make them, but I can't find one. My other though, I don't have a TIG, but I do have a flux core and access to a MIG if I really needed to, would be hit it with a tiny bead of weld in the screw hole, then carefully drill and tap it to 5/44 after filing the surface flat again. If that is the best option for repair, I'd rather someone with a lot more skill than me does it (I am a good shade tree welder, not an artisan).

Thanks for any info/help.

 

[raljr1]

No expert here, but a former machinist for what that's worth.

You have very little risk shooting the gun, even with no screw in that location. biggest risk shooting it with the screw in place is that you loose the screw at the range as a result of recoil.

One option might be to have the smith peen the hole in the frame to close it up and retap it. In that case he might be able to get enough thread engagement to give you a reliable fastening.

Don't try welding it yourself. If you want to go that route, find someone who is very good with a TIG torch or who can micro weld the hole for drilling and tapping. Not sure what the heat might do to the nickel finish.

You could also have a gunsmith tap it out one size larger and make you a screw to fit it.

Best of luck.

 

[DWalt]

I would have done exactly what you did and called it good enough. And not worried about it.

 

[CH4]

Since I don’t have either in front of me I can’t say for certain, but doesn’t the 27-2 uses the older, smaller yoke screw? Perhaps there’s enough room in the side plate and frame to open it up and thread it to fit the larger, newer yoke screw.

 

[sophie]

I would have used blue locktite. Most of the time it takes pretty good heat to break red locktite loose. I’ve had red locktite used on scope mounts years ago by a guy in our club on my guns before I knew better. Had lots of problems removing the mounts years later.
Just sayin.

 

[azazel1024]

I would have used blue locktite. Most of the time it takes pretty good heat to break red locktite loose. I’ve had red locktite used on scope mounts years ago by a guy in our club on my guns before I knew better. Had lots of problems removing the mounts years later.
Just sayin.

It seemed like there was low enough strength on the screw attachment I was worried blue locktite would come loose immediately. Of course I might regret that later. Only time I've used red locktite otherwise is a silencer tube that backed loose that was supposed to be permanently attached (I think they forgot the red locktite), and a couple of fasteners on things that never should be unfastened for any reason.

 

[azazel1024]

Since I don’t have either in front of me I can’t say for certain, but doesn’t the 27-2 uses the older, smaller yoke screw? Perhaps there’s enough room in the side plate and frame to open it up and thread it to fit the larger, newer yoke screw.

I appreciate you mentioning that. I actually was wondering what might be going on with it. I think someone may have done something like that already. I tried the 2nd screw and it just dropped in the hole, zero engagement at all. I miked the screws and at the edge of the threads the yoke screw was several thousandths larger. Maybe .006-.010.

Anyone have any ideas on the sizes the screws should be? If a new screw is really a larger diameter, that seems like it could be a good option. Or at least it wouldn't hurt too much to get one and check. I am very comfortable tapping a hole. That's something I've done dozens of times (in non-gunsmithing capacities).

 

[rct269]

My knee-jerk reaction is Grainger would have the 5X44 Helicoil kit. I say that only because they have had just about every unusual thing I've ever needed. MSC is another likely source.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[azazel1024]

My knee-jerk reaction is Grainger would have the 5X44 Helicoil kit. I say that only because they have had just about every unusual thing I've ever needed. MSC is another likely source.

Ralph Tremaine

Thanks! I was wondering about Grainger also. I've used them little in the past, but I've sourced several oddball things from them in the last few months, or where they had something for like a quarter the price of someone else.

 

[azazel1024]

Well, one update. S&W emailed me back promptly this morning apologizing for the issues I am having and sent me a pre-paid mailer to send it to them for evaluation. So I think I'll probably do that. Maybe not the absolute cheapest option. But I am assuming the one with the best results or at least easiest to complain to if it isn't done right. I have off Friday and planned to head to the range to shoot it for the first time. I think I'll do that, and then ship it out later that day.

The smith near me I haven't heard back, but he seems to generally be backed up several months. He does guys a solid by only taking the firearm right before he can work on it, not taking stuff and sitting on it for a few months.

Anyone have S&W factory experience on how long it might take? I am assuming about a month total turnaround.

 

[jeffrefrig]

Good luck with that! I sent a brand new one back (the FFL did). It came back two months later, but they screwed something else up and I've been waiting over a month for that repair. Maybe you'll have better luck.
Those are nice guns. My gun in question is a 27-new. I forget the number; I think 9. Good luck and happy shooting.

 

[azazel1024]

Good luck with that! I sent a brand new one back (the FFL did). It came back two months later, but they screwed something else up and I've been waiting over a month for that repair. Maybe you'll have better luck.
Those are nice guns. My gun in question is a 27-new. I forget the number; I think 9. Good luck and happy shooting.

Well that's confidence inspiring

Hopefully this is something relatively quick.

Out of curiosity, is it a call them when you see they've gotten it, or a "we will call you" sort of deal?

 

[gmborkovic]

Back in the 60s I remember an old machinist tapped a hole like the yoke hole and made an un tapped plug that he screwed in and peened into place. then tapped it. Like a blank Heli-Coil. I remember he made it long then milled it flush.

 

[azazel1024]

So another question on this while I've been pondering and doing some more research. Could a new yoke screw be used? I realize no one can see my 29-2 and measure and inspect. Anyone know what diameter each version is? I've read 5-44, but I don't know if that is the new or old style. Would the new style work supposing the frame was tapped for it? What I've read is the screw head diameter is roughly the same size between the new and the old. opening the side plate slightly, I would think, wouldn't be a big deal.

 

[toad67]

It doesn't relate to your issue, but having one of these around for years has been a great help. It makes going to the hardware store a bit more productive. Also, quite a few ACE Hardware stores now carry small gun screws. Good luck.
BROWNELLS SCREW CHEK'''R | Brownells

 

[steelslaver]

I would just go up one screw size. They have used 5-44 screws in the side plate since WWII. Prior to that they were a slightly smaller screw BTW.

With a hole like you describe you could probably run a 6-40 tap in the hole and go with a 6-40 screw. Using a tapered tap with the yoke out you should get good threads all the way. Then drill tap a piece of steel about the thickness of the original screws threads. Run in a new screw and use a file on what is sticking out to remove the threads and leave it the diameter of a normal side plate screw tip and then fit its tip width and length so the yoke pivoted smoothly. The tip of a yoke screw is a fitted part anyway. Usually only the length may need adjusted


I would NOT rework it to use a new style yoke screw. They are larger yes, but they also have a pointed tip with a ball and are for a new style V grooved yoke NOT a square grooved yoke like a 27-2 would have/

If the 6-40 screw you get (ACE has gun screws) has to large of Dia head, Chuck it in a drill and hold it against a fine file until it is the right size.

If I was determine to use a stock screw I would mount the frame in my mill, line up dead nuts on the original hole, drill and tap the hole to 8-32, thread in an piece of 8-32 screw coated with red loctite until the tip was flush in yoke pivot hole. Let it set up, then use a end mill to flush the insert to flush excess screw to its spot in frame, then drill and tap it to 5-44, never moving the mill bed so it remained perfectly aligned the whole time. I might have to use a fine tooth round file to clean any small burrs in side the frames yoke pivot hole. But, I don't charge myself anything for my time.

 

[Protocall_Design]

The old screw is #5-44. The new kind with plunger are #8-36.

 

[azazel1024]

I would just go up one screw size. They have used 5-44 screws in the side plate since WWII. Prior to that they were a slightly smaller screw BTW.

With a hole like you describe you could probably run a 6-40 tap in the hole and go with a 6-40 screw. Using a tapered tap with the yoke out you should get good threads all the way. Then drill tap a piece of steel about the thickness of the original screws threads. Run in a new screw and use a file on what is sticking out to remove the threads and leave it the diameter of a normal side plate screw tip and then fit its tip width and length so the yoke pivoted smoothly. The tip of a yoke screw is a fitted part anyway. Usually only the length may need adjusted


I would NOT rework it to use a new style yoke screw. They are larger yes, but they also have a pointed tip with a ball and are for a new style V grooved yoke NOT a square grooved yoke like a 27-2 would have/

If the 6-40 screw you get (ACE has gun screws) has to large of Dia head, Chuck it in a drill and hold it against a fine file until it is the right size.

If I was determine to use a stock screw I would mount the frame in my mill, line up dead nuts on the original hole, drill and tap the hole to 8-32, thread in an piece of 8-32 screw coated with red loctite until the tip was flush in yoke pivot hole. Let it set up, then use a end mill to flush the insert to flush excess screw to its spot in frame, then drill and tap it to 5-44, never moving the mill bed so it remained perfectly aligned the whole time. I might have to use a fine tooth round file to clean any small burrs in side the frames yoke pivot hole. But, I don't charge myself anything for my time.

Thank you! Excellent answer. The gun went back to S&W yesterday, so I'll see what they say. If the answer is "sorry we can't do anything" I'll take your approach on the #6 screw and tap it.

Sadly I don't have a mill, but I do have a drill press and x-y vise. Not that I think I'd likely need it for this, other than that would be easiest to chuck up a screw to take the threads off it.

 

[azazel1024]

Just a quick update. No word from S&W other than an automated notification that they received it a little over 2 months ago. I called yesterday and the person I spoke with said it still hadn't been looked at by a gunsmith, but they'd mail me an estimate once they had. Well today I got a Fedex notification that a 5lb package is being shipped to me adult signature required arriving Friday.

So either they did look at it yesterday or this morning and quick repaired the screw gratis. Or they took a look and went "nope" and are shipping it back.

I guess if the later, I'll just look to fix it myself at some point. It is within my skill set to drill and tap the hole (it might not even need drilling, just tapping) one size larger and get a pan head screw and custom fit the screw. It'll be nerve wracking and likely take me a lot of time to be real careful making the screw, but should be doable.

 

[Alk8944]

Here is a source for 5x44 NEF Helicoil: U.N.F Helicoil Kits, Uni-Thread Ltd

Yes, they are in the U.K. but I have ordered from the U.K. a few times in the past and had no problems, just took a little longer,