1917 DA barrel?

[Whistlebritches]

I have a 1917 sounds like first cousin, to the "Jima" thread, mine looks standard all around, 5.5 in, the lanyard loop missing but the hole filled.
What is different, it has been apparently arsenal refinished, no Smith emblem existing at all on the right side.
I got the gun from a reputable Reno dealer, his story was, and some net evidence existed, it was a reimport out of Brazil in the past.

Some of the "kids" here may have forgotten, during the slick willie years, all sorts of machinations surrounded "military" weapons, moving back and forth between countries most of us would have trouble locating on a map of the globe.

My question, did anyone ever offer reproduction barrels? When I first got the gun, I had problems of repeated hits, on any given bread box size spot on the berm, even at 25 yards or so.

Now, this with lead bullets. The lands are very shallow, and far from match grade looking grooves. Of course, they never were all that deep.

I tried several variations of jacketed, and the only consistency, showing a full choke group, was 230 mil spec. Even the 180 jacketed HP, did a skeet choke effort at best, at 20 yards.

I am stretching the group size a bit, but the famous barn door, would be pretty safe, if very far away.

Did any one ever make after market reproduction barrels? For a gun I leave hanging in the closet, hidden under a jacket, I am likely chasing ghosts. Cripes, if I need greater accuracy, I have a broad choice.

But, like that one old boy said, "only accurate rifles are interesting", kind of applies to revolvers as well.

Was thinking, a lot of sour guns, come back big time, simply recrowning the muzzle. This one likely had soldiers, see sawing the cleaning rod, for the old corrosive prime ammo, big time.

Any comments, pro or con, are welcome.

 

[Muley Gil]

Brazilian 1917s have the Brazilian crest on the side plate. WW I 1917s did not have any S&W stamps on the frame or on the side plate.

Is this revolver marked US ARMY on the butt? Please post pictures and the serial number.

Brazil did make replacement barrels for their 1917 revolvers. IIRC, these were marked INA.

These revolvers were designed around the 230 gr. FMJ hardball round. Some folks have good results with hard cast bullets.

 

[wheelgun610]

If the butt markings say "US MODEL 1917, it never had the trademark on the side plate, and no MADE IN USA on the right side of the frame. If it was a Brazilian model, it would have that country's crest on the side plate, and the serial number on the butt would be marked similarly to S&W's standard civilian production guns.

Accuracy varies with 1917s, but they were only intended for "minute of man" accuracy at distances too close for a rifle.

Mark

 

[StrawHat]

Replacement barrels were made by S&W, the Brazilians and the Israelis.

Each was of different quality. All had the same rifling.

Kevin

 

[tennexplorer]

What markings are on the Israeli barrels?

 

[Whistlebritches]

I see a note that my account was suspended? No clue why, if it was. If this is still showing, the number on the yoke and crane, 5627, none on the butt, but the swivel hole plugged. Gonna have to get creative, but I think I can recrown it, using either my lathe or mill. I dont want to pull the barrel though, if I can invent something. I see below, I am not the only guy wondering about a barrel. I have seen several gun in the past, shoot goofy, with a minor ding in the crown. thanks, Ron

 

[murphydog]

I see no evidence of any negative changes in your account or status here. ?

As noted above, a US military 1917 Army will have this rollmarked on the bottom of the grip frame. Both the Brazilian and Commercial variants will have just a serial number with the digits starting on the rear grip strap side. Most will be in the > 170000 range but a few surplus frames with earlier numbers are known.

In terms of accuracy, it may be worth trying several different brands of 230 gr FMJ or JHP before doing barrel surgery. The ones you used may be just slightly undersized for the bore, and a subtle increase in bullet diameter may tighten up your groups...maybe to minute of barn.

 

[StrawHat]

What markings are on the Israeli barrels?

Too many years have passed for me to remember. I do recall seeing the ads in Shotgun News. SARCO or J&G Sales ring a bell as to the sellers.

Kevin

 

[StrawHat]

I see a note that my account was suspended? No clue why, if it was. If this is still showing, the number on the yoke and crane, 5627, none on the butt, but the swivel hole plugged. Gonna have to get creative, but I think I can recrown it, using either my lathe or mill. I dont want to pull the barrel though, if I can invent something. I see below, I am not the only guy wondering about a barrel. I have seen several gun in the past, shoot goofy, with a minor ding in the crown. thanks, Ron

Some images would help us see what you have.

A simple crown, to test your theory, can be achieved with a chamfering tool. If groups improve, then you can invent. I have crown revolver barrels with a large ball and crocus cloth. No, not perfect but pretty good.

Kevin

 

[Wiregrassguy]

I have an INA barrel in the white that I managed to acquire a few years back. Was going to put it on a 1917 snubby I have that when the barrel was cut, they cut the front locking lug by 1/8" rendering it useless. These barrels differ from the original S&W barrel by having no extractor rod flat or machining for the mushroom extractor knob. I've never seen an Israeli barrel. Also, can't really comment on how well it shoots since I've not put it on my gun.

 

[wheelgun610]

... the number on the yoke and crane, 5627, none on the butt, but the swivel hole plugged...

If you mean there's no marking at all on the butt - including no serial number, that's not a good thing.

Mark

 

[StrawHat]

…

have a 1917 sounds like first cousin, to the "Jima" thread, mine looks standard all around, 5.5 in, the lanyard loop missing but the hole filled.


What is different, it has been apparently arsenal refinished, no Smith emblem existing at all on the right side...

If it was arsenal finished in a US Arsenal, it would have rework numbers stamped on it in several locations. Are you seeing any? How about inspectors stamps?

There were no S&W emblems on the wartime revolvers. On the civilian revolvers, there was a small emblem stamped under the cylinder latch starting in the 20s. I do not recall if the S&W stamp ever got to the sideplate.

…I got the gun from a reputable Reno dealer, his story was, and some net evidence existed, it was a reimport out of Brazil in the past...

Buy the revolver, not the story. If it doesn’t have a serial number, well, neither did Dillingers, maybe…

It is very hard to totally remove the Brazilian crest from the sideplate. If you do not see any remnants, it was probably not produced for them.

…When I first got the gun, I had problems of repeated hits, on any given bread box size spot on the berm, even at 25 yards or so.

Now, this with lead bullets. The lands are very shallow, and far from match grade looking grooves. Of course, they never were all that deep...

The rifling was specified by the US Army and set up for hardball. Fortunately, competition shooters were able to develop lead loads that were acceptable for competition. My revolvers respond best to a bullet with a long bearing surface, cast from an alloy between 16/1 and 20/1. I size them all to just over throat diameter. I use hardball doses of powder and have had good groups.

…I tried several variations of jacketed, and the only consistency, showing a full choke group, was 230 mil spec. Even the 180 jacketed HP, did a skeet choke effort at best, at 20 yards...

A bit surprised to hear hardball was not grouping. Have you cleaned the barrel? A Lewis lead removal tool might be needed to get the lead out.

…Was thinking, a lot of sour guns, come back big time, simply recrowning the muzzle. This one likely had soldiers, see sawing the cleaning rod, for the old corrosive prime ammo, big time...

If they sawed the rod enough, a new crown won’t help. But, worth a try.

Photos would help us determine what you have.

The lack of stamping on the bottom of the grip frame is troubling but not insurmountable.

Kevin

 

[Whistlebritches]

Thanks for the reply. I didnt "buy" the story exactly, I did enough research at the time, the story sounded credible. Nor did I fall off the turnip truck last night, I have 45 years wasting time on guns, often on a daily basis.

I might opine, no ner do well, would waste time removing a serial number, and plugging the hole, and doing a typical decent refinish. This looks more parkerized, than blued.

The barrel stamps for example, show little of any evidence of a buffing wheel. Yet, where the emblem likely wasm appears slight evidence of buffing.

I realize we all like to be morally correct, but I would say they are gonna stay up 24 7, 366 days a year, just tracking the kabillions of single shot shotguns, and 22 rifles, made before 1968, or what ever date the requirement took place.

Any FFL holder ever, has sold lots of guns, with "no serial number", in the book, and any serious gun trader, likely has a few in their safe.

Lest I get in real need of another project, which isnt probable, I will likely just use jacketed hardball, the rare times I shoot it. And if it ever comes to katy bar the door, the target range wont be all that far.

But I do have a plan to succesfully crown it, with whats on hand.

Thanks for all the info mis amigos, Ron

 

[wheelgun610]

... I might opine, no ner do well, would waste time removing a serial number, and plugging the hole, and doing a typical decent refinish. This looks more parkerized, than blued...

If the gun is indeed a US ARMY MODEL 1917, someone did indeed remove all the markings from the butt - including the S/N.

I realize we all like to be morally correct, but I would say they are gonna stay up 24 7, 366 days a year, just tracking the kabillions of single shot shotguns, and 22 rifles, made before 1968, or what ever date the requirement took place.

Those guns you refer to that were manufactured without serial numbers prior to the GCA of '68 don't need one.

Any FFL holder ever, has sold lots of guns, with "no serial number", in the book, and any serious gun trader, likely has a few in their safe...

The point isn't to argue any of this. There was a time when it was fairly common to for people to remove S/N's and 'US' military markings for fear of owning contraband. The thought was that if the markings were removed, no one would know it was a former military arm. The fact is that you can't legally remove the serial number from any gun that had one at the time of manufacture. In a case where a S/N has been removed, it can be rectified with BATF, but only at their discretion. In other words, they're not obligated to issue a new S/N.

Mark

 

[Kinman]

Accuracy from any revolvers off the 1917 frame is questionable. As mentioned they were designed for full metal jacket. I get the best results out of mine using .452 200gr. plated
FP semi wadcutters over 5.2gr. Red Dot. A great plinking round and cheap to shoot. I only reload in 45 Auto Rim because it is much easier to shoot than messing around with moon clips.

 

[StrawHat]

What markings are on the Israeli barrels?

I asked my brother. He reaffirmed my thoughts. They are stamped. I.M.I.

Kevin

 

[steelslaver]

Serial numbers missing

A gun which had a serial number on it when it originally left the factory is legally required to have one at this point. The fact that prior to the GCA many were manufactured without serial numbers does not chance the requirement that those that did have number must still have them.

But, here are a couple points. Firsts, for sometime after the GCA of 68 gunsmiths were allowed to remove the original serial number as long as they restamped it on the f4rame or receiver. Proving the number was stamped either before or after this REGULATION was chanced would be near impossible. Second, I have been a member here for 10 years. About once a month someone comes along and announces to the forum that they have a gun with no serial number on it. That means that there have been around 100 such cases since I joined. Yet despite the fact that at least 25% of the forum members are displaying a badge to show they are either active or retired Law enforcement, I have yet to hear of a single one of these otherwise law abiding citizens having a legal problem resulting from owning such a gun.

1917 barrels. I think I should buy a couple 20" chunks of .452 barrel from Green Mountain for $50 apiece and go to work turning them each into barrels for 1917s.

 

[Borderboss]

Serial numbers missing
1917 barrels. I think I should buy a couple 20" chunks of .452 barrel from Green Mountain for $50 apiece and go to work turning them each into barrels for 1917s.

If you do that, shoot me a message. I would be in for a heavy barrel version.

 

[StrawHat]

1917 barrels. I think I should buy a couple 20" chunks of .452 barrel from Green Mountain for $50 apiece and go to work turning them each into barrels for 1917s.

I need at least one, more.

Kevin

 

[ACORN]

I see a note that my account was suspended? No clue why, if it was.

When viewing this site on my desk top for some reason I get the same message on the right side of the first message in a thread.
Gremlins, I guess.